WHAT AM I DOING WRONG!!! Swirls galore :(

[SOREBACK]

My car is a 2012 mustang gt lava red which looks black unless directly in the sun then its has a red metallic sparkle. Heres my problem.... I keep getting swirls no matter what i do or products i use. When i got the car it had swirls from first wash, since then here is what ive used:
Meguiars claybar
Meguiars 105
Meguiars 205
Meguiars show glaze #7
Blackfire wet diamond
Meguiars carnuba paste wax
Meguiars gold class high gloss quik detailer
Meguiars ultimate wash & wax soap
Lake country 6.5" pads (red,yellow&blue)
Cobra blue microfiber towels (washed separate never fabric softner)

The paint looks foggy and has swirls. It looks terrible ( to me) under floresant lights. Compared to an original spot under the rear spoiler that is normally cover and never detailed the difference is huge. My car never seen bad weather, always garage kept and i have had it since brand-new day 1 abd it now only has 4,200 miles and ive had it for 14 months.
What am i doing wrong or could be the colpret? Im tired of spending money on car care products just to be let down. Ive watched all the videos and do as ive seen but still no luck.

Thanks!!!!!

[A-train]

U are using some quality products, so I wouldnt blame those. I didn't see any mention to the following.
1. Two bucket method
2. Grit guard.
3. Quality washmitt

It could be a a lot of things. I'd just start with making sure you have the best wash technique down. I personally don't hit my vehicles with qd, unless I know the surface is really really clean. Also if you are claying without polishing you could be leaving some marring behind.
I am a firm believer that an equal amount of swirls can be instilled in the drying process just like the washing process. You could try the :
Flooding technique with a hose or
Blot dry with a microfiber drying towel. Drying using a qd to give u some extra lubricity.

You said you had used a yellow blue and red pad, you might could try a white polishing pad since yellow to a red or blue pad is a big jump. Just throwing out a few ideas.

[Calibmw23]

What tool are you using? It is probably a technic issue. Possibly not using enough pressure or too much pressure or possibly arm speed. I am not familiar with ford paint but I need to use a flex 3401 on mine since the paint is so hard. If I use a PC I don't get as good results.

[SRTSean]

The paint on those cars is super soft. Try finishing with Menzerna SF4500 after using M205. I detailed a black 2012 GT and M205 left a fair amount of hazing.

[truckbutt]

You are using great products. I have an 11 GT and use the same products. Here are some things to look at:
1. What machine are you using and at what speed for each step?
2. How many of each pad are you using for the car?
3. How much car do you correct before you change/clean your pad?
4. Are you checking your results after each step? You should not go from compounding/polishing to LSP unless you are satisfied with your work.
5. Do the entire correction on a 2x2 test area. Once you know what it takes to get the job done you can use the same products on the entire car.

50/50 after 105/205:
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/GS0F8798thb.JPG

Finished with BFWD:
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/GS0F8845thb.JPG
Good luck!

[Jaretr1]

Did you initially get all the swirls out after attempting to correct the paint? Assuming you did, then it has to be you are re inputting the swirls with your wash method. Anytime you touch the paint surface with anything (towel, microfiber, foam applicator, wash mitt) you have the opportunity to inflict swirls. Making sure this is as clean and gentle process as possible is the key.

I use a one bucket method ( I am old school I guess ) with a sheepskin wash pad ( I got from AG). After I wipe off each section, I rinse the pad off (to make sure not to contaminate the soap water). After the car is clean, I use the water sheeting method with leaves the car 90% dry already. Then I use a CLEAN microfiber towel to dry the rest. I have not had any new swirling from this method.

Always use clean microfiber towels. I never reuse a towel until its been washed and replaced back into my clean drawer.

If you havent been able to acheive a proper correction prior to the LSP, read above.

If you have, you might consider trying a higher end wax as well. Something like Souveran or some of the Dodo Juice, or even DP Max Wax thats on bogo now are all very highly regarded and might give you more of a shine especially on that color.

[SOREBACK]

I use a blackfire bucket with grit guard. I use a Porter Cable for buffing. I never dry the car eith any towel i use a leaf blower. I use one pad and do the whole car before switching to different pad. I have a microfiber wash mitt but i think its a cheap one from auto store ( got it for christmas) thats probably the only thing i have thats low end.
How many pads (same color) do i use to completly do my car?
How many microfiber towels should i use to remove wax/polish on the whole car? Maybe im over using my pads and towels.
What do you guys think are the BEST towels for wax/polish removal?
Do you think the 6.5" pads ate too big and hurting too?
Lastly after all this hard work what cover should i get to protect my hard work. My garage seems to attract a lot of dust a pollen which has me using QD all the time causing a lor if my problem

[hyu]

I had the same issues when I was using 6.5 Pads. I switched over to 5.5 and it became so much easier... Try switching to slightly smaller pads

[Mobile detail]

Have you ever gotten rid of the swirls even after the m105/205? Do you have any pictures? I've worked on a ton of Fords and haven't really had any problems except for a 99 F-150 Tornado Red (SP?). If you have a lot of pollen and are QD all the time, could this be causing your swirls?

The 6.5 pads are a little big for the PC. I use a rotary and will go through about 2-3 pads per color per vehicle and I clean on the fly after each section.

The best towel is what works for you. I've used Cobra, CG, Sonus, and cheap ones from Costco. They all work. It also depends on what your trying to do. I wouldn't use the same type of towel for a quick detail that I would for wax removale. I will usually use around 5-10 towels for an exterior detail. Sometimes only 2-3. Depends on what I'm doing.

For protection, from the sounds of it & if you can get the paint corrected to your satisfaction, I would look into a coating like Opti-Gaurd. I've done around 10 cars with it and its perfect for your situation. The only downside is you won't get much benefit if you wax it meaning if your the type of person that likes to try different products, your kind SOL.

If you don't wanna go the coating way, I use Blackfire sealant and wax. Gives a great look and decent duribilty.

[truckbutt]

I use a blackfire bucket with grit guard. I use a Porter Cable for buffing. I never dry the car eith any towel i use a leaf blower. I use one pad and do the whole car before switching to different pad. I have a microfiber wash mitt but i think its a cheap one from auto store ( got it for christmas) thats probably the only thing i have thats low end.
How many pads (same color) do i use to completly do my car?
How many microfiber towels should i use to remove wax/polish on the whole car? Maybe im over using my pads and towels.
What do you guys think are the BEST towels for wax/polish removal?
Do you think the 6.5" pads ate too big and hurting too?
Lastly after all this hard work what cover should i get to protect my hard work. My garage seems to attract a lot of dust a pollen which has me using QD all the time causing a lor if my problem
This is a major NoNo. As you do your correction, your pad is getting saturated/plugged up with spent product and clearcoat that you just abraided. You should at least use a nylon brush to clean the pad after each section and after four sections you should be changing pads or cleaning them with a pad washer before continuing. I find it hard to believe that you are not seeing swirls before your LSP with this technique. If you are not using a pad washer, you should have at least 4 pads to do your correction step. I use 6.5 inch LC pads with no problem. I use them on Megs G110v2 and Flex XC 3401. This is definitely not an issue of the quality of your products. They are fine. Read what you can and watch videos on technique here and on YouTube. I don't want to sound harsh but spending more money won't solve your problem. You can't buy your way out of this. You have to spend the time to get your technique down.
Here (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-n-shine/41085-2011-black-mustang-gt-detail-blackfire-wet-diamond.html) is a step by step example. The only product I used that you don't have is Menzerna P085RD after the M205. It isn't a necessary step. It just adds some gloss to the shine.

[Mike Phillips]

The paint looks foggy and has swirls.


It looks terrible ( to me) under fluorescent lights. Compared to an original spot under the rear spoiler that is normally cover and never detailed the difference is huge.




Going by the products you listed, the foggy look could be coming from the last machine applied correction product which would be the M205. The only way to know for sure would be to do some side-by-side testing against a different but similar type product.

I love Meguiar's products but I've seen M205 leave micro-marring on some paint systems when used with any type of DA Polisher. Other people reading this might not have had this experience but two things,



1. It's only going to show up on a dark colored paint - you won't see micro-marring easily on light colors.

2. You have to know how to inspect for the problem.



If your car was mine, I would re-polish the paint using Menzerna SF 4000 and a Lake Country 5.5" Flat Foam Polishing Pad. This combination of Fine Cut Polish with a soft foam polishing pad should remove any shallow defects causing the fog.

Then machine apply just ONE of these products.


Blackfire wet diamond
Meguiars Carnauba paste wax

You don't need to use all of the last step product you listed, at least not all in a single detailing session.

I would do a test spot with each one to a quarter of your Mustang's hood. Do one front quarter with the Blackfire and one front quarter with the Meguiar's and then inspect after wiping each product off and go with the one that looks the best in your eyes.


:xyxthumbs:

[Mike Phillips]

This is a major NoNo. As you do your correction, your pad is getting saturated/plugged up with spent product and clearcoat that you just abraded. You should at least use a nylon brush to clean the pad after each section and after four sections you should be changing pads or cleaning them with a pad washer before continuing.


Scott makes a very important point above. One of the best habits you can get into, especially if you own and work on a black or dark colored car is to work clean.

See these articles,

Why it's important to clean your pads often... (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/28755-why-s-important-clean-your-pads-often.html)

ANYTIME you're abrading the surface whether you're using an aggressive cutting compound of an ultra fine polish, you have two things building up on the face of your buffing pad...


Spent product
Removed paint
You need to remove both of these substances from the face of the pad and the panel you're working on before you apply fresh product. If you don't,


Adding fresh product to spent product and removed paint adulterates the fresh product, it also dilutes it.
Buffing with a dirty pad will be more difficult.
The product will cake-up on the face of the pad.
The product will become gummy on the paint and hard to wipe off.
How to clean your pads and other options to make buffing clean again...


You can scrub the face of the pad with a nylon brush like a pad conditioning brush or even a nylon toothbrush
If using a Dual Action Polisher or a Rotary Buffer you can clean your pad on the fly (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/20135-how-clean-your-foam-pad-fly-when-using-porter-cable-style-da-polisher.html) with a terry cloth towel
You can wash your pads in a bucket of water
You can wash your pads in a sink under running water
You can wash your pads in a pad washer
You can switch to a clean, dry pad
You can switch to a brand new pad
I just buffed out half the hood on an oxidized 1959 Cadillac and used the technique along with a nylon brush and it works adequately enough to allow me to work clean and get back to work quickly.


That's the whole idea behind cleaning your pad on the fly... you can remove a majority of the spent product and removed paint and then get back to running the buffer... buffing out an entire car already takes a l-o-n-g time... stopping to do some kind of pad cleaning procedure that isn't quick and easy keeps you from buffing on the paint.


Fast methods include,

Pad Washers
Cleaning your pad on the fly with a terry cloth towel
Using a nylon pad conditioning brush
Using a Spur if you're using a wool pad on a rotary buffer


Slow methods, (they might work well but they take you away from buffing on the car)

You can wash your pads in a bucket of water
You can wash your pads in a sink under running water


:)


And this one,

How to clean your foam pad on the fly (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/20135-how-clean-your-foam-pad-fly.html)

And I show how to use the above technique in this video,

Video: How to remove shallow RIDS and how to machine apply both a paint sealant and a finishing wax (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-car-garage-how-videos/48365-video-how-remove-shallow-rids-how-machine-apply-both-paint-sealant-finishing-wax.html)







I find it hard to believe that you are not seeing swirls before your LSP with this technique.


Good point and it should be discovered during the TEST SPOT

How To Do a Test Spot (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/50162-how-do-test-spot.html)
(and why it's so important)






You have to spend the time to get your technique down.



Technique is everything... (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/43201-technique-everything.html)





Here (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-n-shine/41085-2011-black-mustang-gt-detail-blackfire-wet-diamond.html) is a step by step example. The only product I used that you don't have is Menzerna P085RD after the M205. It isn't a necessary step. It just adds some gloss to the shine.


I shouldn't have been to quick to recommend switching products. Scott is right in that the product you already have are great products that have a great track record. I worked for Meguiar's when M105, Ultimate Compound and M205 were introduced as Lab Samples, in fact I used the Lab Sample of M205 on Nate Truman's BLACK Batmobile and it worked flawlessly.

Just as important as having and using the right tools, pads and products though is working clean and in order to work clean you need to clean the face of your pads often. Simply running a stiff bristle tooth brush over the face of a used pad is more than enough to remove the majority of both spent product and removed paint so you don't re-introduce these two contaminants each time you move to a new section.

And seriously, you want to dial in your process for the entire car by doing a Test Spot. Don't tackle the entire car until you're happy with the results from your Test Spot or you may end up having to do the entire car over again.


:)

[Bert31]

My car is a 2012 mustang gt lava red which looks black unless directly in the sun then its has a red metallic sparkle. Heres my problem.... I keep getting swirls no matter what i do or products i use.

I am getting conflicting views. Is the paint fine after polishing but swirls show up after washes (this would be wash induced swirling) or is the fog and swirls still on the paint after polishing (this would indicate a problem with the polishing)?



Lake country 6.5" pads (red,yellow&blue)

You have two finishing pads (red and blue) with a VERY aggressive cutting pad. My assumption is you are using the 105 on the yellow pad and 205 on either the red or blue pad. If my assumption is correct, the 105 on the yellow pad would leave quite a bit of haze on the paint that a finishing pad like the red or blue would have trouble cleaning up.

The could also be the cause of your fogging????

[Mike Phillips]

Use a tape-line like this to trouble shoot.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/796/medium/TapeLine02.jpg


Clean a foam polishing or finishing pad as best as you can.
Wipe a horizontal section of paint clean.
Shake your bottle of M205 really well and then prime your pad and add a few drops of "working product".
Make a 4-6 section passes on one side of the tape line using 5.5 to 6.0 setting on your PC with medium pressure, slow arm movement.
Wipe the residue off and inspect and compare to the paint on the other side of the tape line and then tell us what you see.


The paint should look better, the same or worse. This will help us to help you to troubleshoot where you need to tweak your technique or possibly switch to a different pad or product.


:)

[SOREBACK]

Will do. Thanks. I will get on it tomorrow evening. I will post pics.

Looks like im doing a few things wrong. I didnt clean pad enough and wiping off the dust every other day isnt helping either. I really need to find a very soft fabric or indoor car cover. I will wash it with dawn and start all over again.