The next step after the GG 6" machine?

[Klasse Act]

So I got the GG 6" machine last year, along with the 3" one to make tight area's easier and have LOVED it! I've been able to tackle everything that I've used it on, but how about vehicles that are not maintained as well, check this out. Yesterday I detailed my buddy's Mom's 2005 Dodge Magnum SXT, metallic black and its never really been properly detailed. I was told its been clayed twice and I assume waxed afterwards. I had a plan for tackling this car and here's what I used in order:

-general use clay bar (forgot the brand, had it for a while)
-XMT #4 w/ 6.25" Optimum MF cutting pad
-Griots One-Step sealant (has MP #3 in it already) mixed with Klasse All in One
-Griot's caranuba wax stick with Griot's red pad
-hand applied BFWD all paint protection as my LSP

My buddy had the car washed and waiting for me when I arrived, so that saved me some time but I ended up spending 10.5 hrs on the car and didn't even get to finish applying BFWD, was only able to do the hood, front bumper and fenders and windshield, So here's how the XMT #4 went, it knocked out the swirls from everything except for the roof, wher it was only left with "slight" swirls. All panels had me going over them 3 times and to be honest with you, I worked this product in completely, going over and over and over it, 3x's! The roof I went over twice because it seems to buckle a bit too much for me, LOL. I was happy with the results on the car, especially on a car that's 7 years old and basically "abused" in our eyes here for sure. I followed it up with my mix of One-Step/KAIO and even more clarity started to reveal itself, once again, happy with the results here as well, Finishing up had me using the easy to apply Griot's caranuba stick with its 33% caranuba content and it finished VERY well. For a caranuba, it doesn't dust at all when removing and have always liked this product from Griot's, alot! Once I was done with this, we pulled the car out and gave it good bath to remove all the "stuff" that you get on the car when doing such a detail and let me tell you this, it really SHINED:dblthumb2: Sorry, my buddy only took one pic and there wasn't any before and after pics, sorry, I got right to work on this thing in the morning and didn't look back.

Now that you've read all that, here's my question, where do I go next with the wheel? The roof wasn't perfect and its what I want when I do ANY detail, so do I need a different wheel, better technique or what? Also, is it possible that some finishes require wet sanding to get them 100%? I mean I went over the hood 3x's and really worked it in and my buddy and I were happy with the results but IMO the hood could've been even better, this is why I'm asking you guys out there, the ones that REALLY know what I'm asking here, WHERE DO I GO NEXT, TO GET TO THE NEXT LEVEL?

[Mike Phillips]

Get a rotary buffer like the Flex or Makita or get a Flex 3401 with the new 5" Hybrid pads.


:)

[SonOfOC]

Mike, are you teasing? Where are the hybrid 5"?


Get a rotary buffer like the Flex or Makita or get a Flex 3401 with the new 5" Hybrid pads.


:)

[Klasse Act]

Get a rotary buffer like the Flex or Makita or get a Flex 3401 with the new 5" Hybrid pads.


:)

Thanks Mike but could you tell me how much further my skill set needs to be to properly use one of those machines, I'm not as timid as I used to be but I do know those machines work at a much higher rate of speed, thus more heat and could result in burning the paint.

Also, these "hybrid" pads you speak of, are they only for use on the rotary buffer? Being somewhat of noob, I'm only educated on the foam and MF pads that I'm using currently. I really appreciate any help here Mike, I told my buddy last night that I'll end up with an additional machine within a year.....looks like it may end up being sooner!

[RZJZA80]

I'd get the Makita. I use mine when all else fails or I just need full correction in a hurry. It's a little nerve wrecking at first, but once you get the hang of it, it's nothing. Just keep it moving and watch for corners and edges where the paint is the thinnest, and tape up all trim, etc. very well when using a rotary. A little practice and you'll wonder why you didn't get one sooner.

[Mike Phillips]

Mike, are you teasing? Where are the hybrid 5"?

There not on the store site yet but I see a box of each in the warehouse.

The Velcro backing is 4" in diameter so if you want to use these on the Flex you have to get the 4" & 6" Backing Plate Adapter Kit.


New 4" and 6" Backing Plates for Flex 3401 (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/new-car-care-products/40410-new-4-6-backing-plates-flex-3401-a.html)



They do work really well on rotary buffers with a matching backing plate.


:)

[Mike Phillips]

Thanks Mike but could you tell me how much further my skill set needs to be to properly use one of those machines, I'm not as timid as I used to be but I do know those machines work at a much higher rate of speed, thus more heat and could result in burning the paint.


Rotary Buffers are really not that hard to use and what I've been telling people for years is that you don't want to learn how to use one on a black Viper, (or Corvette etc.).

You don't have to run them at high speeds, you can remove a lot of paint or gel-coat at high speeds and if that's your goal then of course it's important to focus on the task at hand. I'll often times do surgical compounding at 1000 RPM or lower even though most recommendations will state to run the buffer at 1500 RPM or higher.

I can't remember the last time I ever needed to go over 1500 RPM except when buffing out the side of an oxidized boat but even then I was probably only around 1600 or so RPM.

The Flex PE14 is the easiest rotary buffer to learn and master if it's in your budget, it's not just the lightweight it's also about the compact size.

Small pads and flexible backing plates also make using rotary buffers easy but I do think that if you're going to use small pads with a full size rotary buffer you do have to pay very close attention to what you're buffing because your footprint is small, (pad size), and the rotary buffer in comparison will be larger or bulky but it is doable.







Also, these "hybrid" pads you speak of, are they only for use on the rotary buffer? Being somewhat of noob, I'm only educated on the foam and MF pads that I'm using currently. I really appreciate any help here Mike, I told my buddy last night that I'll end up with an additional machine within a year.....looks like it may end up being sooner!


The Hybrid pads I was talking about are the new 5" diameter pads with the 4" Velcro Backing that matches the 4" backing plate introduced by Lake Country for the Flex 3401.

In the past there has not been a lot of pad size options for this tool because of the housing around the drive mechanism. I think I read a post somewhere where someone suggested a smaller version of this tool be introduced?

The pads work great on both rotary buffers and the Flex 3401 both the 5" and the 6.5" because thickness isn't as issue with these types of tool.

Both the Makita and the DeWALT 849X are also very good rotary buffers that both dial down to 600 RPM and that's really a feature you want.



I'd get the Makita. I use mine when all else fails or I just need full correction in a hurry. It's a little nerve wrecking at first, but once you get the hang of it, it's nothing. Just keep it moving and watch for corners and edges where the paint is the thinnest, and tape up all trim, etc. very well when using a rotary. A little practice and you'll wonder why you didn't get one sooner.

Well put.


:xyxthumbs:

[Klasse Act]

Thanks for all the input Mike, as well as everyone else but I checked out the price and I guess I'll need a much, much, much larger client base to justify buying that one. Now don't get me wrong, I'm sure its the one to get, talking about the 3401 Flex but for right now, well, I'll have to deal with my GG which has done a great job for most of the tasks that I ask of it, that's for sure. I know I've spent alot of time applying all the coats on my car but I know this, I'd rather layer upon layer my car over time then every spend an entire day to perfect a car, this is something I personally will never have to deal with, its just those other people out there that let their cars go for almost 2 high school terms!

Once again guys, thank you, when I get to the point where I need this wheel, I now know which way to go.

BTW, those of you guys/gals who've used the Optimum MF cutting/polishing pads, do you find they're better at getting the job done compared to their foam counterparts? I had my GG machine set at about 5-5.5 to do this Magnum yesterday and although I could feel the heat, the pad didn't seem to get anywhere near as warm as the foam did in the past but I had to keep up the speed on this job, the paint was that pad.

[mwoolfso]

3-Griots One-Step sealant (has MP #3 in it already) mixed with Klasse All in One
4-Griot's caranuba wax stick with Griot's red pad
5-hand applied BFWD all paint protection as my LSP

I would swap 4 and 5.... a sealant on top of a wax won't work for very long.

[Rsurfer]

You do know not to apply a sealant (BFWD) over a wax (Griot Stick) You should have applied the BFWD over the Klasse and then the Griot (LSP).

[Klasse Act]

You do know not to apply a sealant (BFWD) over a wax (Griot Stick) You should have applied the BFWD over the Klasse and then the Griot (LSP).

I'm pretty sure I've seen people apply a SEALant over caranuba before, can't say I've heard caranuba needing time before applying anything ontop of them. I was only able to apply the BFWD to the hood/front fenders and bumber and windshield. I do know that BFWD needs 8 hrs to cure, this is why I didn't wanna use it till I was done with the caranuba, so you can understand why I did this, right?

I do appreciate the input here, just wanna make sure you guys understand that.

[Jomax]

You say you went over the area 3 times. Was that 3 section passes?? In my experience you need to make 6 section passes to remove some rids and swirls. Also, look into using a more aggressive compound like m105.


Sent from my iPhone using AG Online

[Klasse Act]

You say you went over the area 3 times. Was that 3 section passes?? In my experience you need to make 6 section passes to remove some rids and swirls. Also, look into using a more aggressive compound like m105.


Sent from my iPhone using AG Online

Not sure what you mean by section passes so let me explain what I did. I broke the hood down into 4 sections, each section I would do the side to side, up and down and repeated that as many times as I needed to until the product basically disappeared, then removed the haze and repeated that process 2 more times. I wish I had taken pics because the hood actually came out pretty good, only the roof needing more attention, only did that twice and really didn't push down too hard because I thought it was buckling too much.

As far as aggressive compound goes, well, I wanted M105 but at the time it was on BO here so I went with XMT #4 and on the chart I found here, its one of the most aggressive products out there, which is why the car turned out so well with what I had to use as far as machine and pads. I've heard good things about Megs UC too, once the XMT #4 is used up, I'll be buying the Megs UC.

[Rsurfer]

Unlike a wax, sealants need clean paint to bond too.
I'm pretty sure I've seen people apply a SEALant over caranuba before, can't say I've heard caranuba needing time before applying anything ontop of them. I was only able to apply the BFWD to the hood/front fenders and bumber and windshield. I do know that BFWD needs 8 hrs to cure, this is why I didn't wanna use it till I was done with the caranuba, so you can understand why I did this, right?

I do appreciate the input here, just wanna make sure you guys understand that.

[Klasse Act]

Unlike a wax, sealants need clean paint to bond too.

You mean clean as far as NO wax on the paint, right?