Can Optimum Polishes be used in direct sunlight?

[WRAPT C5Z06]

:dunno:

[RhetoricMixes]

Good question since reviews on OPT products are hard to find. Subbed for info

[dad07]

Good Question Mark....I'm not sure myself,because my shop is climate controlled.

Maybe Chris will chime in here and Corey could be a great source also,as he puts everything to extreme testing.

Subscribed.

[Perfections]

Yes they can be used in direct sun light, just dry super fast so you have to keep your working area small. I know this isn't advised by optimum though.

[FUNX650]

Hi Z.B...

IMO...There are other factors, to also consider:

Vehicle's Panels-Temperature (when placing your hand upon the panels doesn't result in:
'fleeing the scene' in search of a soothing balm)

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/unguentine.jpg (http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/46461)
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________

Ambient temperature
(the 'air' surrounding the detailing-area...Your choice of thermometers may vary :D)

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/Thermometers.jpg (http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/46474)
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________


Wind Speed/Direction

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/handheldanemometer.jpg (http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/46477)
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________

:)

Bob

[Mike Phillips]

Define direct sunlight?

When I arrived here to work this morning at 7:00am there was full sunlight. IT was rather cool and felt really nice outside.


No one ever includes what they mean by full sunlight.

There's a HUGE difference between the parking lot here at Autogeek at 7:00am in the morning and working outside in Arizona in August at noon on a black car.


What do you mean by full sunlight?


:confused:

[Mike Phillips]

Hi Z.B...

IMO...There are other factors, to also consider:

Vehicle's Panels-Temperature

Bob


Good point Bob and here's an article I wrote on this topic in 2008 with pictures showing dramatic temp difference between car colors.

NOTE: Most people are scanners so don't miss this little tidbit and that was I took these temperature reading in May, not even a hot month, in a coastal town and around 10:00am in the morning, not even the hottest part of the day yet.


Working in the sun? How HOT does your car's paint get? (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24930)



The black car measured 168 degrees. What do you think a liquid is going to do when it's applied to a black surface that almost 170 degrees?

I'll stick by what I wrote in the article back then and repeat here all the time,


Even if a product claims it can be used in the sun it will always work better on a cool surface in the shade.


I know and understand that mobile detailers are working outside in full sun but there's a limit as to what chemist can do to over come hot temperatures and to what --> you <-- can do in these types of situation.

Here's an article on this topic,

Tips for working in warm/hot weather or direct sunlight (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tips-techniques-how-articles-interacting-discussion-forums/26961-tips-working-warm-hot-weather-direct-sunlight.html)

Here's just an excerpt from the above article, click the link to read all of it.




First the facts...
Paint care products will always work best on a cool surface in the shade, this is true even for products that state they can be used in full sun. Even if a product can be used in full sun, working on a cool surface in the shade will always be easier and maximize the performance of the product because warm and/or hot temperatures, plus the heat from direct sun rays will always be trying to dry out your product before you can effectively work it over the surface.


Also, there's a HUGE difference between working in full sun in the morning in a fall or winter month and working in full sun when working in August, in Arizona at noon on a black car. The temperature of black paint in August, in Arizona at noon can easily exceed 180 degrees and any liquid product applied to the paint will tend to want to dry very quickly even if on the label it says, "can be used in the sun" .


A few tips...
For those times when you don't have shade and it's warm or hot outside and you don't have a cool surface to work on, here are a few tips...


Borrow some shade...
First, look around and see if you can borrow some shade, by this I mean the shade created by a large building? Maybe under a large tree?

Working under a tree can present a potential problem for debris falling out of the tree and on to your working surface but that's the trade-off for getting out of direct sun, so if you do work under a tree be sure to clean any panels immediately before working on them.


Portable Canopy...
If it's in your budget, invest in a quality EZ-Up type Canopy to create a shaded, protected work area.


Shrink your work area down to a smaller size...
Anytime a product becomes difficult to work with, one tip you can try is to shrink down the size of your work area. This means you spread the product out over a smaller area and because you're engaging the working film of product over the area more quickly as you move the polisher there's less time for the product to dry.


Clean your pads often or switch to a clean dry pad...
It's vitally important to work clean and this means cleaning your pad often and often can mean cleaning your pad after each Section Pass no matter which type of polisher you're using.






Hope this helps...

[Mike Phillips]

While this has to do with using a rotary buffer the same ideas apply to working on paint in full sun in hot temperatures with any tool...

Fight or Flight Method for Gaging Surface Temperature (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wet-sanding-cutting-buffing/22325-fight-flight-method-gaging-surface-temperature.html)

The topic of heat comes up often when talking about using a rotary buffer to machine compound or polish paint. For decades now I read comments by people where they state heat is necessary when using a rotary buffer with a compound, or any other abrasive product that uses diminishing abrasives for abrading ability, in order to break the diminishing abrasives down. This is not accurate.

When buffing with a rotary buffer and any type of product that contains diminishing abrasive, including a compounds, paint cleaners, cleaner/polishes and even a cleaner/waxes, what's necessary is pressure over time. Heat is just an unnecessary and unwanted byproduct of the process.

When using a rotary buffer for correction work for even a minute or longer, heat is unavoidable. The smaller the section your work the greater the risk of getting the paint hot. It's normal and okay to get paint warm, (because there's nothing you can do about it), but you don't want to get paint hot and if you do get paint hot then you want to stop buffing in that section and let the paint cool down. So the question is,

How hot it too hot?

Or

What temperature range is consider warm and within a range that's safe to work a rotary buffer?


I don't know any specific temperature ranges recommended by any of the major paint companies to work within or extreme hot temperature ranges to avoid, so here's the common sense approach anyone can use on-the-fly when buffing with a rotary buffer. This is a method I've been using since I started using a rotary buffer in the late 1980's and that I've been teaching in any class that includes using a rotary buffer. It's simple, yet effective and you don't need to purchase any testing tools as you already have the tool you need built-in.

This method works off your hand's sense of touch and your brain's instincts to protect you. I call it the Fight or Flight Method for Gaging Surface Temperature. Not one of my better titles but descriptive to say the least.

The Fight or Flight Method for Gaging Surface Temperature
When using a rotary buffer, periodically check the temperature of the paint by placing the palm of your hand flat on top of a section you just finished buffing, like this,

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/719/FightorFlightTempCheck.jpg


If the paint feels warm, even close to hot, BUT it's not so hot that you jerk your hand away, then it's in a temperature range that's safe to buff.

If you you place your hand on the paint and your Fight or Flight instinct takes over an you find yourself jerking your hand away from the surface at the speed of light, then the paint is too hot and you should stop buffing that section and allow the paint to cool down.

Kind of caveman but you get the idea. The bigger point is to check the surface temperature of the paint once in a while because you might surprise yourself at how hot you're getting the paint. Because you're in control of the rotary buffer you need pay attention to the surface temperature and this means pausing for a moment to feel the paint.

Different body panel materials, for example steel, aluminum, fiberglass, composite, will heat up at different rates and will either dissipate or hold heat at different rates, so it's a good idea to check each time you work on a different car.

With testing, you can get a feel, (not pun intended), for how long you can buff an average size section and not be getting the paint too hot.

:)

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Well, there are products advertised that can be used in "direct sunlight". With that said, I would assume these products could be used on HOT panels. The sun will makes things hot, correct? :) It would be pointless to market a product that can be used in direct sunlight, if the panel must be cool. Does this make sense? Let's clarify this first. :)

Optimum does not market their products that can be used in direct sunlight(hot panels), I was just wondering if they possibly could.

[FUNX650]

Well, there are products advertised that can be used in "direct sunlight". With that said, I would assume these products could be used on HOT panels. The sun will makes things hot, correct? :) It would be pointless to market a product that can be used in direct sunlight, if the panel must be cool. Does this make sense? Let's clarify this first. :)



-From products' Marketer's viewpoint (probably not the Chemists/formulators):
It is not pointless to market a product that can be used in direct sunlight.
(Especially, since they hope one will disregard many product's disclaimers)

-Hasn't: between 50-90F been considered "the ideal" temperature range of vehicles' panel surfaces for applying "detail products" upon them?
-The more direct sunlight, the higher the panel's temperature may rise...Time to 'back away' the detailing project into a cooler-arena, IMO.

-Of course, any temperatures above/below the above range will have a different: "cause and affect"...To wit:
ADDS---Added-Detailing-Difficulty-Syndrone.

I do not find myself wanting to be in that scenario!

:)

Bob

[Mike Phillips]

Well, there are products advertised that can be used in "direct sunlight". With that said, I would assume these products could be used on HOT panels. The sun will makes things hot, correct? :) It would be pointless to market a product that can be used in direct sunlight, if the panel must be cool. Does this make sense? Let's clarify this first. :)

Optimum does not market their products that can be used in direct sunlight(hot panels), I was just wondering if they possibly could.



At the end of the day, common sense will rule out. I've worked on hot paint in direct sunlight and what I found is whatever the product, the carrying agents, solvents, water and oils, tend to want to dry up and evaporate making the product hard to buff and hard to wipe-off.

If you're going to be a mobile detailer and work outside, then it's best to invest into a EZ-Up Canopy of some type and create your own shade as this will make any work easier as well as a lot more enjoyable. Plus keep you from getting sunburned.

Optimum compounds and polishes have a very long buffing cycle and easy wipe-off, better than most comparable products, that will make them easier to buff with and wipe off in any climate or environment but they, like all other products are always going to perform better on a cool surface in the shade.

Plus don't forget the one tip I posted above,

ANYTIME you have to work on hot paint in the sun shrink the size of your work area down to a much smaller size.


:xyxthumbs:

[WRAPT C5Z06]

making the product hard to buff and hard to wipe-off.



There's a couple new polishes that are marketed as "sun friendly" that I tried and didn't have this problem in direct sunlight on a hot panel. :dblthumb2:

[WRAPT C5Z06]

like all other products are always going to perform better on a cool surface in the shade.

That makes plenty of sense to me! :props:

[BobbyG]

Personally, I think they'll always be exceptions to a rule regardless of the situation however here we're discussing detailing products.

Surface temperature rather than sunlight is the culprit at how it effects our detailing products.

Here's an article I found on how color affects surface temperature...

"The outside air temperature was approximately 80 degrees F. At 2:15pm just after measuring the cars, the pavement in the sun measured 111 degrees, shaded pavement was 72 degrees, a shaded white cinder block wall was 68 degrees, and a shaded metal wall was 73 degrees. So this is a typical warm but not unreasonable day."

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/BobbyG53/Detailing/ColorvsTemp.jpg

Now, I always knew that a black finish was much hotter than white but personally had no idea the temperature extremes were so great.

Mid 90's is about as warm I'm comfortable to work in both personally and where I feel it affects the products performance.

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Where can I buy a cheap paint thermometer?