Scratch removal advice needed

[eds72]

I've spent several days searching and reading and felt like I had a pretty good plan but now would like some expert advice before proceeding.

The vehicle I am working on is a '62 Impala but appears to not have the original single stage paint. I have yet to see any paint transfer either when testing the paint or when doing the correction work I detail below. So I am reasonably sure I'm dealing with 2 stage paint.

Overall the paint appears to be in pretty decent shape. The only "problem" spots are on the horizontal surfaces, especially the hood. There is some pretty heavy scratching in a few places. When I run my fingernail over them, it does not catch but if I listen carefully I can hear a slight difference in the sound vs. when I run it across a smooth part of the surface.

My first step was to tape off a test spot and clean with a good waterless wash. Next I clayed the test area until it was smooth. After that, I broke out the PC 7424, an orange pad, and Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover 3.0. I suspected this would not be aggressive enough, but had it on hand already so gave it a shot. As suspected, it did a nice job on the swirling but not much to the deeper scratches.

From reading it seemed a logical next step was either Megs M105 or UC. I elected to go with the UC primarily due to the opinions here that its longer working time was preferable to a novice with a DA machine. After making 6 passes (orange pad, cleaned before using) it appeared the scratches were improved somewhat, but they were still clearly there. I repeated the process, again making 6 passes with the DA. The scratches may have been improved slightly, but it seems to me that I will need a more aggressive approach if I am going to totally correct the issues.

It seems to me I have three choices at this point: More aggressive compound, more aggressive pad, or be happy with the improvement and call it good.

I will try to get some pictures later, but wanted to post now to see if folks had some suggestions.

I've learned tons from this site over the years - in fact so much that I've always been able to accomplish what I was after without even having to post! Thanks to everyone who contributes here.

[StephenK]

pictures would help.

not sure what you expierence level is but you if you know what you are doing you could try wet sanding or stepping up to a rotary.

also try going back over it with your 105.

i have had this problem before and after a closer look it was not scratches but it was actually grooves in the metal.

[Mike Phillips]

Since this is your first post...

Welcome to Autogeek Online! :welcome:


As to your questions...




It seems to me I have three choices at this point:




More aggressive compound.
More aggressive pad.
Be happy with the improvement and call it good.




The last thing you want to see on your beautiful 1962 Impala is to turn your buffer over and see the color of your Impala's paint showing on the face of your buffing pad. It will make you want to cry.

The problem you're encountering is called RIDS and I have a very thorough article on this topic in my Article List here,

RIDS - The Definition of RIDS and the story behind the term... (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/24045-rids-definition-rids-story-behind-term.html)


Here's an excerpt...




RIDS = Random Isolated Deeper Scratches

RIDS
Random Isolated Deeper Scratches. These type of scratches come from normal wear & tear and there is no pattern to them. RIDS are like Tracers in that they are deeper scratches that show up after the shallow scratches have first been removed through a machine or hand buffing process, usually with a compound or paint cleaner. After the shallow swirls and scratches have been removed, any deeper scratches that remain will now show up like a Sore-Thumb to your eyes because there are no longer thousands of lighter, more shallow scratches camouflaging them.

When do RIDS Show Up?
As mentioned above in my accounting of a story that plays itself out with almost ever customer and most if not all detailing classes, RIDS show up after you perform the first cleaning or compounding step.

In most cases, and especially if the paint has been neglected or abused, the paint will be filled with hundreds of thousands of light or shallow swirls and scratches. At this point, when you look at the paint you don't really see the RIDS because the are masked or camouflaged by the hundreds of thousands of deeper scratches.

AFTER you compound or use some type of paint cleaner or cleaner/polish over the paint, then wipe off the residue... then the RIDS show up.

This isn't always true for all RIDS as deeper RIDS will show up easily to your eyes even when surrounded by hundreds of swirls, like this... note the straight-line scratches in a few random directions included in the mass cobweb swirls throughout the paint.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/836/redelcamino_029.jpg


After you remove the majority of shallow swirls, scratches and other below surface defects out of the paint and then wipe-off the residue and inspect the paint, now that the zillions of shallow defects will have been removed, the only defects left will be the random, isolated deeper scratches and because there's no longer zillions of swirls and scratches surrounding the deeper scratches they stand out like a sore-thumb and are easy to see.


Random
The reason I used the word random is because they are random, and this is an important distinction because sometimes people confuse RIDS with other types of below surface defects, for example, sometimes people will refer to Tracers and RIDS but this isn't accurate.

Tracers are, or at least should be, scratches in the paint that are all in a straight line going in the direction a person was moving their hand when wet-sanding.

RIDS are instilled through normal, wear-n-tear from a car being used as a daily driver and as such, deeper scratches are instilled in hap-hazard, random ways, thus the choice of the word Random.


Isolated
This just means they're usually by themselves, not a part of a group or pattern of scratches or below surface defects


Deeper
This is kind of obvious but RIDS is about the deeper scratches that don't come out during the first and sometimes second or even third compounding or correction step because they're just too deep to be removed safely. At this point you need to learn to live with them or educate your customer that they are too deep to remove safely and they either need to learn to live with them or consider their other options, like having the affected panel or the entire car re-painted.


Scratches
RIDS are mostly about the deeper scratches that remain after the compounding and/or polishing steps but it could also include any deeper defects that are not removed such as Type II Water Spot Etchings, Tracers, Pigtails, etc., basically anything that remains after you've made the decision you've worked a panel as much as you're going to work it and anything that hasn't bee removed is not going to be removed. (At least by you).


That's the story behind the term RIDS; I've seen people type it RDS and leave out the letter "i" but it's technically RIDS



So that's what you're likely working with... random, isolated, deeper scratches.




I will try to get some pictures later, but wanted to post now to see if folks had some suggestions.



Here's some suggestions...

Sand them out using a 3" Dampsander or cut postage size pieces of sandpaper out to reduce your footprint when sanding.

After sanding, use a compound to remove your sanding marks.

Griot's 3" Mini Polisher works great as a 3" Dampsander (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wet-sanding-cutting-buffing/46341-griot-s-3-mini-polisher-works-great-3-dampsander.html)


RIDS and Feathersanding - A Highly Specialized Technique by Mike Phillips (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/21469-rids-feathersanding.html)



Be careful, all the UV protection for the basecoat and the paint system overall is in the clear layer of paint. See my comments on page 2 of the below thread...


Beginning Clearcoat Failure (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/29197-beginning-clearcoat-failure.html)







I've learned tons from this site over the years - in fact so much that I've always been able to accomplish what I was after without even having to post! Thanks to everyone who contributes here.



We LOVE seeing Lurkers transition to Active Members!

It's also nice to hear our new members share that the AGO forum has helped them to reach their goals. We'll be sure to keep on keeping on...


:dblthumb2:

[eds72]

Not the greatest quality, but the best I can do with the lighting available.

Here's the first one. The area below the tape line has been corrected with Wolfgang TSR (6 passes), then Megs UC (6 passes) and finally another attempt (6 passes) with the UC. All done with an orange pad. You can also see I had a piece of tape along the left edge - the contrast between the area that was taped over and the area that was corrected is pretty clear. If you look there, it probably gives the best idea of what I'm dealing with.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1445/IMG_2623_cropped.JPG (http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/46058)

The second picture is basically the same, but shows the uncorrected area above the tape and how it appears compared to the area that has been corrected.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1445/IMG_2624_cropped.JPG (http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/46057)

I am tempted to call it good and move on for fear of making things worse. Honestly, when I had the car out in daylight (it was hazy, but full daylight) I literally could not find an angle at which I could see the defects clearly to show my daughter. Even in the garage, I have to find just the right angle under the fluorescent lights to see them. However, once I find that angle they look pretty significant in comparison to areas that do not have the scratches.

Mike, thanks for your detailed reply. At this point, I am pretty nervous about doing anything to this car that involves sanding or a rotary buffer. I think my comfort level ends with using a DA. So if folks think I can correct with a more aggressive (yellow) pad, or a more aggressive compound I'd probably try that but would choose to just accept the defects and move on before I'd bust out the tools that could do damage in inexperienced (my) hands.

[eds72]

Hate to be one of those guys who bumps his own thread but could sure use some advice here... anyone?