Does sealer help reduce the potential to get new spider-web scratches?

[-z yaaaa-]

just like the title asks... does sealant (more perticularly wolfgang sealant) help reduce the potential to get NEW spider web scratches in the clear?

again, asking if it will help against NEW ones, not filling in old ones. just want to make that clear lol :)

reason i ask is because the paint on my 03 montana seems to get spider web scratches fairly easily. i have been using the two bucket method with a regular cheapy $20 brush and hertz (i wash cars for them) "bradley's RTX-3" industrial soap on it for about a year (washing on average once a week) and these scratches just look horrendous. i dont push hard with the brush and i ALWAYS use fresh clean water. plus i am drying with an absorber so i dont quite understand why these are so bad, honestly.

now, i did use the mequiars ultimate compound then polish on the hood to test it out using a wal-mart bought turtle wax orbital buffer (its low speed) and it removed most of the scratches. i waxed it twice afterwards with mothers cali gold cleaner carnuba and it looked spectacular. 6 months later (after winter) the scratches came back as if i hadnt even been there.

so, this tells me that either a.) the brush i am using is causing these or b.) i didnt use a sealant.

now, just this past weekend i ditched the hertz wash brush in favor for a mothers genuine lambswool mitt. only thing i changed in my wash procedure.

i also bought a wolfgang paint sealant bottle to try out. havent had a chance to try it yet but thats why i am asking this question. id like to know of this sealant will help reduce the potential for new spider web scratches. if not is there anything i can do to help reduce the potential?

i realize its just a daily driver minivan but honestly they only made 2770 of my thunder edition in 2003 and only 572 of them were my color so id like to keep it as nice as i can. and not only that i do love the thing LOL. call me odd if you want to but i really take pride in this thing. :)

thanks a lot, guys and sorry for the book. :)

[A-train]

While Wolfgang DGPS is a great sealant, it will not mitigate swirls being put in the paint. Here's some things you can do to help though.
- two bucket method with grit guards
- change out your water halfway through or if you notice it getting dirty.
- High quality wash mitt ( Wookie, Carpro Mitt, Lake country sponge etc.)
- Use a soap with plenty of slickness to it.
- Pretreat excessivley soiled areas (p21s Total auto wash)

There are products out there that will minimize the risk of swirling. They are more time consuming than putting on a sealant or wax, but they will hold up much better and do offer more scratch resistance.
Optimum Opti Coat
C quartz
Element 119
I would recommend investing in a quality DA Polisher before putting any of the above mentioned coatings on though, bc you will want your paint to be in as good a shape as possible before coating.

[-z yaaaa-]

-i do use the two bucket method but havent yet gotten the grit gaurds. i wash the mitt out with the hose every couple passes though.

-i now use a quality mother's genuine lambswool mitt

-the soap i use is pretty good and slick. i go overboard and it provides tons of suds LOL

what is the "pretreat" you spoke of?

is the turtle wax polisher not a good one? it did remove the swirls i had before..

[Setec Astronomy]

Contrary to A-Train's remarks, I DO believe that a good wax or sealant can have some effect in reducing wash-induced marring, because contaminants stick less and wash off easier. However, that effect is minimal, and you really need to concentrate on your wash technique.

First of all, ditch the brush. Second, although that Bradley RTX-3 may be a car wash soap, I'm not sure it's actually what you want to use if you are after an Autogeek-ian finish. You need to concentrate on floating the dirt off and not grinding it into the finish. You need to have quality washing and drying media, and keep it clean.

[SON1C]

how wouldnt a sealant and or wax reduce or eliminate marring, its a layer of protection, it'd have to penetrate through the protection first

[Setec Astronomy]

how wouldnt a sealant and or wax reduce or eliminate marring, its a layer of protection, it'd have to penetrate through the protection first

That layer is unmeasurably thin.

[-z yaaaa-]

im lost, are some of you not reading, or??

please go back and read, i ditched the brush. i said it twice! lol

as for the soap, i get that its probably not the best but could you explain as to why? it works VERY well for us here at hertz on some of the absolute nastiest cars.

do you mean its not good for the finish because its so harsh or did you mean its not good because it wont clean the finish properly? the way i read it was that you think its not cleaning properly or not enough...

[Kaban]

Any wax or sealant mitigates swirls simply because you need to use alot less effort to remove dirt off the paint. Try washing a car that has never been waxed and then a car that has been waxed or sealed or coated. HUGE difference. The sponge glides on the paint and you need to use alot less pressure to remove any contaminants. It's common sense.

[kronos]

First of all ditch the brush... ;)

Second of all, a orbital buffer does not have the power to remove swirls, unless your technique is very very good. So what most likely happened is the compound and wax only filled in the swirls. After multiple washes, the residue and wax has finally come off, revealing the swirls that were never really removed. Maybe only the shallowest of swirls were removed, but I'm sure all the RIDS (random individual deeper scratches) were untouched by the buffer.

[Setec Astronomy]

as for the soap, i get that its probably not the best but could you explain as to why? it works VERY well for us here at hertz on some of the absolute nastiest cars.

do you mean its not good for the finish because its so harsh or did you mean its not good because it wont clean the finish properly? the way i read it was that you think its not cleaning properly or not enough...

I'm sure it cleans very well, otherwise you wouldn't be using it there at Hertz on nasty cars. However, anecdotally it would seem it is not helping you with your swirls. The car washes we use here are designed to be gentle on LSP's, and provide a lot of lubricity to minimize wash-induced marring. Reading the description of your soap, that wasn't higlighted in the features, but if it works for you, then keep using it.

[umi000]

im lost, are some of you not reading, or??

please go back and read, i ditched the brush. i said it twice! lol

as for the soap, i get that its probably not the best but could you explain as to why? it works VERY well for us here at hertz on some of the absolute nastiest cars.

do you mean its not good for the finish because its so harsh or did you mean its not good because it wont clean the finish properly? the way i read it was that you think its not cleaning properly or not enough...

You mentioned that you go overboard with the soap - just a caution that too strong a soap mixture can degrade or even strip waxes or sealants; and that a product that's recommended for really nasty cars might be a bit too strong for regular maintenance.

[A-train]

how wouldnt a sealant and or wax reduce or eliminate marring, its a layer of protection, it'd have to penetrate through the protection first

[QUOTE=Setec Astronomy;661771]Contrary to A-Train's remarks, I DO believe that a good wax or sealant can have some effect in reducing wash-induced marring, because contaminants stick less and wash off easier. However, that effect is minimal, and you really need to concentrate on your wash technique.


Ok i may have been too blunt, I agree that a sealant will help in somewhat preventing swirls, I guess i was looking at it more from a yes or no standpoint. As in can you still get swirls even if you use a sealant.

It certainly wont' eliminate swirls though. It would have to penetrate but the sealant first but a sealant is just a thin barrier to allow the dirt to stick to, instead of directly to the clearcoat making it easier to clean off, no sealants to my knowledge offers any major scratch resistance.

i also believe that the majority of wash induced marring and swirls actually come from the drying process so that may be something to look at to cut down swirls. If the turle wax polisher removed them then great. however there are much better machines polishers out there, and if you do more and more vehicles it will get to a point that you will need to upgrade if the marring is worse than what you have encounterd on your vehicle.

[A-train]

im lost, are some of you not reading, or??

please go back and read, i ditched the brush. i said it twice! lol

as for the soap, i get that its probably not the best but could you explain as to why? it works VERY well for us here at hertz on some of the absolute nastiest cars.

do you mean its not good for the finish because its so harsh or did you mean its not good because it wont clean the finish properly? the way i read it was that you think its not cleaning properly or not enough...


haha ditched the brush, got it. :xyxthumbs:

[umi000]

Oh, one other thing - the Ultimate Compound and Ultimate Polish might not have actually removed all of the swirls, but rather filled them in (Ultimate Polish has a lot of oils which can act as fillers).

[brlukosk]

First of all ditch the brush... ;)

Second of all, a orbital buffer does not have the power to remove swirls, unless your technique is very very good. So what most likely happened is the compound and wax only filled in the swirls. After multiple washes, the residue and wax has finally come off, revealing the swirls that were never really removed. Maybe only the shallowest of swirls were removed, but I'm sure all the RIDS (random individual deeper scratches) were untouched by the buffer.


I've just experienced this myself. After picking up a proper rotary polisher I decided to strip my old LSP and wiped it up with IPA to prep a panel. I'd already gone over the car with M105/205 via PC.. A halogen light showed that many of the defects I thought I had removed were still present. Good news is that after some polishing with the rotary, an IPA wipe-down now shows a flawless finish. :xyxthumbs:

It's really surprising how much the oils in a polish like M205, let alone fillers, can cover up defects without a proper cleaning afterwards to see the true condition.