Removing Swirls out of Cermaiclear Paint

[Mike Phillips]

Removing Swirls out of Ceramiclear Paint (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/off-topic/48629-removing-swirls-out-cermaiclear-paint.html)


Had a 2006 Mercedes-Benz S65 AMG with some swirls in the Ceramiclear Finish.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1422/FlexVideo001.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1422/FlexVideo002.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1422/FlexVideo003.jpg

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I moved my finger back and now you can see my fingerprint...
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1422/FlexVideo006.jpg


Note to self, next time either leave finger in one place or wipe-off finger print :laughing:

Of course it does indicate very in-focus shots.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1422/FlexVideo007.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1422/FlexVideo008.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1422/FlexVideo009.jpg


Used the least aggressive method due to the reasons I outlined here,

Ceramiclear Paints - Be Careful (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/47152-ceramiclear-paints-careful.html)


I often times read others say how hard these paints are but every time I work on one they seem to me to be very easy to work on.


:)

[Jomax]

Nice job! Does the audi and BMW use this Clear? Family members want me to work on their cars one is a 2010 Audi and the BMW is a 2002. Did they use that clear in those years?

[itay]

Looks great Mike!
So what Pad/Product did you use?

From my short expiriance, i found that removing Swirls is the easier part on these hard German cars,

The problem is that once swirls are removed, a new "layer" of RIDS is relieved.

In the attached picture you can see a black VW Golf after first pass with Meg's DA MF cutting pad/D300.
You can clearly see that swirls were removed but from that stage clearing up the RIDS is the bigger challenge.

how do you recommend handling ceramiclear cars that are "infested" with RIDS?
(I know and implement, Small working area, pressure on the machine, cleaning the pad after each section, slow movement, overlapping)

[Mike Phillips]

Nice job! Does the audi and BMW use this Clear? Family members want me to work on their cars one is a 2010 Audi and the BMW is a 2002. Did they use that clear in those years?

I'm not sure all the makes, models and years of all the cars being painted with PPG Ceramiclear or some version of it. I have a tip for finding specifics out about any car in this article,

How to use a Discussion Forum to Detail an Engine (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/20328-how-use-discussion-forum-detail-engine.html)


The big picture is no matter what you're working on, a car, guitar or a pedal car,


Removing scratches and stains off Johnny Zurba's Guitar by hand using ScratchX

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2ScratchXGuitar01.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2ScratchXGuitar02.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2ScratchXGuitar03.jpg


Hand sanding and then machine buffing the paint on a pedal car

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/OC4Nov016.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/OC4Nov017.jpg

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http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/OC4Nov021.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/OC4Nov023.jpg


"Always use the least aggressive product to get the job done"


:xyxthumbs:

[Mike Phillips]

Looks great Mike!
So what Pad/Product did you use?


I used the Flex 3401 with the Wolfgang Twins and the new Hybrid pads here,

Lake Country Hybrid Power Finish Ultra Performance Pad System (http://www.autogeek.net/hybrid-power-finish-pads.html)




From my short experience, i found that removing Swirls is the easier part on these hard German cars,

The problem is that once swirls are removed, a new "layer" of RIDS is relieved.


That's what most people discover too and if the car in question is a "daily driver" then it's usually best to learn to live with the deeper scratches because removing them mean removing more paint and factory paint is already too thin to start with. See my article here,

RIDS - The Definition of RIDS and the story behind the term... (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/24045-rids-definition-rids-story-behind-term.html)


Here's an excerpt...



When do RIDS Show Up?
As mentioned above in my accounting of a story that plays itself out with almost ever customer and most if not all detailing classes, RIDS show up after you perform the first cleaning or compounding step.

In most cases, and especially if the paint has been neglected or abused, the paint will be filled with hundreds of thousands of light or shallow swirls and scratches. At this point, when you look at the paint you don't really see the RIDS because the are masked or camouflaged by the hundreds of thousands of deeper scratches.

AFTER you compound or use some type of paint cleaner or cleaner/polish over the paint, then wipe off the residue... then the RIDS show up.

This isn't always true for all RIDS as deeper RIDS will show up easily to your eyes even when surrounded by hundreds of swirls, like this... note the straight-line scratches in a few random directions included in the mass cobweb swirls throughout the paint.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/836/redelcamino_029.jpg









how do you recommend handling Ceramiclear cars that are "infested" with RIDS?
(I know and implement, Small working area, pressure on the machine, cleaning the pad after each section, slow movement, overlapping)



First, for the reasons I outlined in the article below I would be very wary about removing RIDS out of a car with a Ceramiclear finish on a "Daily Driver".

Ceramiclear Paints - Be Careful (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/47152-ceramiclear-paints-careful.html)


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/715/medium/D8182.jpg



Evaluate the customer and after that their car. If the customer is just the "average joe" with a "daily driver" then educate them that removing enough paint to remove the RIDS will also be removing UV inhibitors designed to protect the paint from the sun.

IF the car is a daily driver then chances are good the car will continue to see wear-n-tear and there will be more RIDS in the future and to try to continually remove all the deeper scratches is kind of pointless... for a daily driver. UNLESS the customer is from this day forward going to take care of the car like it's a show car.

If the car is a show car and the owner is aware that they need to be careful not to instill swirls and scratches AFTER you remove them then here's some tips here for removing RIDS

RIDS and Feathersanding - A Highly Specialized Technique by Mike Phillips (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/21469-rids-feathersanding.html)

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2600feathersandingrightside-med.jpg


If you want to do it by machine, check out this article,


Griot's 3" Mini Polisher works great as a 3" Dampsander (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wet-sanding-cutting-buffing/46341-griot-s-3-mini-polisher-works-great-3-dampsander.html)


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1377/3inchdampsanding001.jpg





:)

[Mike Phillips]

Couple more pics from that day...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1422/FlexVideo011.jpg

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http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1422/FlexVideo015.jpg

That's a Ferrari Windshield we're using for the pad rotation/oscillation demonstration...



:)

[itay]

Thanks mike!

You gave me the answer i was looking for:



"if the car in question is a "daily driver" then it's usually best to learn to live with the deeper scratches because removing them mean removing more paint"



:)

[Mike Phillips]

Thanks mike!

You gave me the answer i was looking for:




You're welcome...

Factory paint is thin, so it's always a good idea to use the least aggressive products to get the job done and learn to live with the deeper defects versus remove them by removing the precious thin layer of clear that came from the factory.

Remove the shallow swirls and scratches and then make sure everything that touches the paint into the future is the highest quality you can obtain...

Avoid inflicting swirls and scratches so you won't have to remove them. Also avoid anyone or anything that would inflict swirls and scratches for the same reason.


:xyxthumbs:

[RChicago]

YEAH!!!!!!! Lets see I tried to record Autogeeks Garage yesterday and ended up recording UFC. It said Autogeeks garage? If the garage uses a chain link ring and beats the snot out of each other then its a rough place to work. I do believe the microfiber towels are softer for cleaning blood off the face but....HEHE

[brentech]

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1422/FlexVideo008.jpg

This picture makes me both happy and sad. Poor AMG, glad it could be fixed up though.

[Mike Phillips]

This picture makes me both happy and sad. Poor AMG, glad it could be fixed up though.


This AMG belongs to my good friend Earl the Plumber, he's had a number of his red street rods on our TV show...


Me, Frank and Earl...
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1325/1956PontiacTVShow010.jpg



Here's Earl's 1957 Chevy

http://www.autogeekonline.net/nick/Day%204%20of%20Filming/DSCN0742.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/nick/Day%204%20of%20Filming/DSCN0745.JPG



And from the first season,

Season 1 - Episode - 7 - Autogeek's What's In The Garage



Season 1 - Episode 7 - Autogeek's What's In The...


This episode was shot here locally and one of our featured guests is a local hotrodder with 3 incredibly cool red street rods.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1122/EarlsRedRides01.jpg



I need to finish buffing out the rest of the AMG as I only buffed out the trunk lid so far.



:dblthumb2:

[brentech]

So he's definitely a collector. Did someone go at the AMG with the wrong approach? What caused such bad defects?

[Mike Phillips]

So he's definitely a collector. Did someone go at the AMG with the wrong approach? What caused such bad defects?


I don't know the specifics but last fall he purchased it from either a private seller or a dealership.

You can see he's kind of into horsepower so I think he purchased this car to have a refined touring car with the 6.0-liter, 604-hp, 738-lb-ft twin-turbo V-12 and not the condition of the paint.

So who knows how the paint became thrashed...


:xyxthumbs:

[Mike Phillips]

Just a follow-up, forgot about this thread but here's the DVD...


How To Properly Use Flex Polishers DVD (http://www.autogeek.net/flex-instructional-dvd.html)

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/715/FlexDVDwithMikePhillips.jpg


:)

[Andr3wilson]

I don't know the specifics but last fall he purchased it from either a private seller or a dealership.

You can see he's kind of into horsepower so I think he purchased this car to have a refined touring car with the 6.0-liter, 604-hp, 738-lb-ft twin-turbo V-12 and not the condition of the paint.

So who knows how the paint became thrashed...


:xyxthumbs:

I actually has seen one of these bad boys on an engine stand. I was visiting my buddy at the dealership (sold me my C63) and he had this in the back shop in for service.

The engine is probably the tightest fitment in any car I have seen, and to pull it out it has to come out the bottom. Absolute work of art though. Expensive too, any job on the engine requires removing to engine to gain any access... full days work lol $$$

But irregardless awesome turnaround!