Philosophical discussion of LSPs

[Audios S6]

With a lot of people using Blacklight and all the back and forth surounding it I got to thinking about which type of LSP is right for each person.

This is in no way me bashing blacklight....I have used it and I like it, but I will use it as an example.

Based on my experience and reading, to me Blacklight behaves like a long lasting glaze. It provides a great look, decent beading, and sub par (compared to a sealant) durability. It's a great product for the hobby detailer that is willing to spend the time to maintain their finish. Also a great product prior to a car show. But not such a great product for the pro detailer who is trying to give a customer a low maintenace, long lasting finish. So I wonder why some pro detailers are such a fan of this.

For the professional detailer overhead costs are an issue; but, if you are doing high quailty $300+ work and not doing production detailing, then it seems to me you are almost cheating your customers if you are using anything but Opti-coat/Cquartz type coatings on a daily driver. Clearly vehicles like show cars & exotics should get different or additional treatment.

A liquid/paste wax is for those owners who are willing to put in the effort to maintain a finish and go the extra mile.

A glaze should be reserved for show cars and owners that won't pay for a correction. Also for those going the extra extra mile.

A spray wax is really a touch-up product to maintain an existing LSP.

This is a few examples of my LSP philosophy, but I'm not the only one with an opinion.

So when do YOU feel you should be using a glaze, spray wax, liquid/paste wax, sealant or coating as an LSP and why?

[Ted S.]

Well, here are my newb tidbits of LSP philosophy:

Sealants:

The only three sealants I have used are: WGDGPS, MP, and Meg's Ultimate Liquid Synthetic-Wax. (maybe 845???)

Some consider #845 a wax, some a hybrid, and some a sealant. I don't care what the hell it is, because that $16 bottle of carnauba is the longest lasting LSP I have used to date. In fact, it put all of the "longer lasting sealants (sealants are touted to last longer than paste carnauba waxes, time and time again.) to shame! I'm so impressed with the durability of #845, that I'm going to get all of the Collinite paste waxes, which I often read have similar or longer durability that #845!

WGDGPS: 2-4 months is what I've gotten outta this stuff. Looks good.
MP: about the same, maybe a little less than the WG. Looks ok-good.
Meg's Ultimate: Crap, maybe 2 before it lost it's sheeting/beading capabilities. Too candied looking.
#845: 4-??? months (This is one of the few waxes that I've stripped to try something else, four months in and it was still golden)

#845 also doesn't have the candied look of sealants, especially notable (to me at least) with the Meg's Ultimate Sealant.

As stated, this year I'm going to get into the other Collinite waxes

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Paste/Carnauba:

I really like the deep look of Meg's Gold Class, But durability is crap, two to three weeks tops.

P21s Concours looks amazing, and beading is great. Durability of two coats is up to 2-3 months! Not bad for a finishing paste-wax!

And that's it for the paste waxes I've used. On to the Collies this summer though!
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Glazes:

I've only used on SS paint. Meg's #7 is some great stuff!! I've read of people using #7 as a final polish to bring out some shine in Clearcoats. I couldn't comment on that though.

I've had trivial success with #7 as a filler under an LSP. It doesn't fill as much I originally expected it to.

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Spray waxes:

I now reserve spray waxes for door jambs.

I've used WG DGSS as a sample last year, and it gave the paint a noticeably brighter and deeper look. Don't recall the durability. Prolly crap.

Meg's Ultimate Quick Wax: Gives a horrible candied, even plastic look. I use this stuff for door-jabs though. Durability is crap. Maybe a month; max, maybe longer on jambs. Easy to use and smells great though.Im the MAN

:dblthumb2:

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Coatings:

No comments as of yet. Haven't had the will-power or discretionay funds to try one out.

[silverfox]

In my opinion those of us who like to keep our cars looking great all the time...the whole LSP longevity-durability issue is way over blown and frankly over-rated. With all the toppers guys are using after each wash like spray waxes and polymer sprays...hell, you don't even need a dedicated LSP because the LSP rarely gets into play and the paint actually takes on the characteristics of the topper, not the LSP underneath it.

However for daily drivers and for customers...you will want something that lasts and is almost bullet proof. Coatings are the way to go for this if you want to "set it and forget it", and coatings are usually alley car wash proof (Opti Coat is). Next in line after coatings would be sealants....and by that I mean stand - alone sealants (not a Blacklight or AIO or hybrid). There is even a Glaze out now that won't wash off with regular washings.

BFWD, Ultima Paint Guard, BF Crystal Seal, Powerlock, Jetseal (rocks by the way)...and many more are really long lasting sealants.

Let's face it for motor heads its more about the "look" than it is about durability because they will likely polish it off, or strip wash it off anyway.

The new spray waxes and spray sealants are probably fine all by themselves. Some might even argue that with these new generation spray products that a conventional LSP may be seen as a waste of time. I could easily live with OPT car wax alone as my LSP if I had no other options.

Interesting debate for sure.

[Ted S.]

Let's face it for motor heads its more about the "look" than it is about durability because they will likely polish it off, or strip wash it off anyway.


That's is why I prefer carnauba's over sealants!!Im the MAN

Nothing wrong with having to wax every few weeks!

[CEE DOG]

Good thread idea! I had an observation. I've heard from so many people about how a detailer ow waterless wash containing polymers will affect the look of their wax.

Well, after applying SV concorso and driving a few hundred miles and being splattered with bugs my options were limited before the show. i used Ultima Waterless which has lots of polymers in it to remove e bugs the night I got down there.

I can tell you without a doubt and with high certainty that it did not affect my lsp! Ask Pat, Al, or anybody. The paint looked deep and even redder than normal just the way it does anytime I apply SVC. In fact it didn't stop the wee bit of greasy sweating either :laughing:

[Vegas Transplant]

For the professional detailer overhead costs are an issue; but, if you are doing high quailty $300+ work and not doing production detailing, then it seems to me you are almost cheating your customers if you are using anything but Opti-coat/Cquartz type coatings on a daily driver. Clearly vehicles like show cars & exotics should get different or additional treatment.



Clearly cheating the detailer - as this would be an upcharged separate offer/service.

[sparty]

Clearly cheating the detailer - as this would be an upcharged separate offer/service.

Agreed! $300+ work means many hours of paint correction alone not to mention meticulous interior detailing including shampoo and leather treatments.

-Sparty

[Kaban]

just use 845. its not philosophy and not rocket science.

[Waxmax]

I enjoy keeping my cars looking good. I'm into the look and durability is a non issue...so after prep, a sealant (optional) and/or glaze topped with carnauba is my typical "lsp". If I get a new product, I might strip it all off and redo...just depends on my time and interest.

My favorite glazes are Blacklight,Amigo and WG2.0. Great look, easy to use.

For the pro there are many considerations based on the customer and what he will pay and what he expects. For daily drivers where people want easy maintenance and good durability, the coatings make sense.


But, if you enjoy "waxing" then go to it.

[mwoolfso]

just use 845. its not philosophy and not rocket science.

KISS principle at its finest

[Vegas Transplant]

This is not me bashing blacklight...

I agree. This is your bashing of detailer processes and practices.




___________________

Dr. Frasier Crane

[Audios S6]

Clearly cheating the detailer - as this would be an upcharged separate offer/service.

I did say that overhead is an issue. But if you know the customer is going to a tunnel carwash that's going to strip anything but a coating, why give them anything at all?

[Vegas Transplant]

Why are we in the business hand?

Will the beautician turn away the customer even though she knows that they are an enthusiast swimmer - or that they work in hot humid situations?

Back to you.

[Vegas Transplant]

This is in no way me bashing blacklight.......
I know hand - I see where you are going with this.


Based on my experience and reading, to me Blacklight behaves like a long lasting glaze. It provides a great look, decent beading, and sub par (compared to a sealant) durability. It's a great product for the hobby detailer that is willing to spend the time to maintain their finish. Also a great product prior to a car show. But not such a great product for the pro detailer who is trying to give a customer a low maintenace, long lasting finish. So I wonder why some pro detailers are such a fan of this.

For the professional detailer overhead costs are an issue; but, if you are doing high quailty $300+ work and not doing production detailing, then it seems to me you are almost cheating your customers if you are using anything but Opti-coat/Cquartz type coatings on a daily driver. Clearly vehicles like show cars & exotics should get different or additional treatment.


A liquid/paste wax is for those owners who are willing to put in the effort to maintain a finish and go the extra mile.
But not for the Pro-detailer?


A glaze should be reserved for show cars and owners that won't pay for a correction. Also for those going the extra extra mile.
Meaning the detailer throwing in an exta process to show his appreciation for the customer?


A spray wax is really a touch-up product to maintain an existing LSP.
I think that silverfox touched on this.

This is a few examples of my LSP philosophy, but I'm not the only one with an opinion.


So when do YOU feel you should be using a glaze, spray wax, liquid/paste wax, sealant or coating as an LSP and why?

Glaze: I have not cracked the top on any of my glazes since developing my market.

Spray wax: After GPS, XMT 360, Hyperpolish; 1-step always followed by OCW

Liquid/paste wax: as per customer wish.

Sealant:when directed by customer; or when it is the base of 1-step polish.
Coating: Old school hand that stuck in my ways and processes; however, the Malaysian and Kuala Lumpur hands have gotten me ready to pull the trigger and learn these products.

10-04?

[Audios S6]

No, they wouldn't turn away a customer willing to pay their fee. They also wouldn't recommend the same product for a swimmer as they would for someone who never goes in the water. They would provide the best service possible for the fee they charge; a fee from a pricing schedule they determine.

It was not my intent to undermine your processes and practices. It was only to share my perspective on LSP usage and learn something from other's perspective. A more reasonable response than "you're bashing my process" would be....

"I use a sealant because I find that with the maintenance wash and protection plan I offer my customers I can give them similar durability to a coating while also providing a better value than the cost of a coating (in frequent washes and protection) as well as a better profit margin for my business."