Do I need to use paint cleanser after polishing?

[timemaker]

Hi guys, a noob here.
I am kinda confused. My work plan:
1. Wash
2. Clay
3. Megs UC - M205
4. P21S paintwork cleanser
5. Sealant.
Is step no 4 necessary? I thought it was done to clean the remaining or leftover polish and also add some gloss (p21s has some fillers I suppose). But after reading some suggestions here, some said that it would be unnecessary since the compound and the polish would have already removed remaining wax. Any suggestions guys?

[embolism]

the answer is yes and no

after wiping off the 205, the paint will have polishing oils remaining on it, which can hide any remaining swirls and affect the durability of your sealant. You can wash the car at this point or use a product to wipe off the oils (griots pre wax cleanser comes to mind). It's a spray so much easier to apply and remove (after all that polishing, you'll want easier, trust me).

The paintwork cleanser will also do it but is a bit of overkill imo. I'd save that for prepping the paint for a new wax/sealant when you aren't polishing.

All that said, I've put on my lsp (collinite 845) without wiping polishing oils off a car before.

The wipedown to get squeaky clean paint is mainly for sealants and to ensure maximum durability from the product.

[Bunky]

If you have used UC / M205, you do not need to use the P21s paint cleaner.

[BobbyG]

As the other guys stated not really.

Whether I need to or not I always wash the surface after polishing. My feeling is the residue left behind from the polishing stage can't help the next product, especially a sealant. I like to be sure the surface is clean so a quick wash and dry or a wipe down with something like Klean Strip Prep-All makes me feel a whole lot better. :props:

[timemaker]

Okay. Thanks a bunch guys. I guess ill do a quick wash. Seems a better option :D

[Rsurfer]

Car Pro's Eraser is the ideal paint cleaner after polishing. Unlike alcohol, it does not flash and wipes on and off like butter.

[Flannigan]

Depending on the LSP I decided to use, sometimes I will use a paint cleaner even after polishing and doing a wipedown with Eraser. For example if I am using UPGP I always go over the vehicle with Ultima Paint Prep Plus. Same thing when I use Swissvax, I always use cleaner fluid before hand, even if I already did a full correction. I'm not sure if it benefits, but I get very long durability out of all the LSP's I use, and the way I look at it, it can't hurt to use two products that were made to work together.

[Mike Phillips]

Hi guys, a noob here.
I am kinda confused. My work plan:
1. Wash
2. Clay
3. Megs UC - M205
4. P21S paintwork cleanser
5. Sealant.

Is step no 4 necessary?



No. It would be redundant. P21S is a non-abrasive paint cleaner or pre-wax cleaner. M205 is a Fine Cut Polish. The M205 will both remove below surface defects and clean the surface of the paint, so there's no need to use a paint cleaner after using a fine cut polish.

As for removing any polishing residue that's personal preference. You could wipe them off carefully with a microfiber towel.

You could wipe them off carefully using a spray detailer.

You could apply your choice of wax or paint sealant and the act of applying and then wiping off the wax or paint sealant will in and of itself act to also remove any trace polishing residues.

You could wash the car with a quality car wash or a detergent wash and this will or should remove any polishing residue.

You could chemically strip the paint using a product made for stripping paint or other commonly used product like IPA or MS

What you do depends upon how AR you want to get and your own personal preferences and beliefs about how important it is to get the surface clean in order for the "protection ingredients" in the LSP of your choice to bond to the surface.

Here's a few related articles...


The benefits of a light paint cleaner, cleansing lotion or pre-wax cleaner (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/28519-benefits-light-paint-cleaner-cleansing-lotion-pre-wax-cleaner.html)

How to Mix IPA for Inspecting Correction Results (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/31183-how-mix-ipa-inspecting-correction-results.html)

Miscible and Immiscible - Wax and Paint Sealant Bonding (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/31186-miscible-immiscible-wax-paint-sealant-bonding.html)


For most of history of man as it relates to washing and waxing a car, people would wipe the polish off and then apply the wax and then move on with life. You can make washing and waxing your car as simple as possible or as complicated as possible, on discussion forums the trend is usually the latter...

:)

[Flannigan]

No. It would be redundant. P21S is a non-abrasive paint cleaner or pre-wax cleaner. M205 is a Fine Cut Polish. The M205 will both remove below surface defects and clean the surface of the paint, so there's no need to use a paint cleaner after using a fine cut polish.

As for removing any polishing residue that's personal preference. You could wipe them off carefully with a microfiber towel.

You could wipe them off carefully using a spray detailer.

You could apply your choice of wax or paint sealant and the act of applying and then wiping off the wax or paint sealant will in and of itself act to also remove any trace polishing residues.

You could wash the car with a quality car wash or a detergent wash and this will or should remove any polishing residue.

You could chemically strip the paint using a product made for stripping paint or other commonly used product like IPA or MS

What you do depends upon how AR you want to get and your own personal preferences and beliefs about how important it is to get the surface clean in order for the "protection ingredients" in the LSP of your choice to bond to the surface.

Here's a few related articles...


The benefits of a light paint cleaner, cleansing lotion or pre-wax cleaner (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/28519-benefits-light-paint-cleaner-cleansing-lotion-pre-wax-cleaner.html)

How to Mix IPA for Inspecting Correction Results (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/31183-how-mix-ipa-inspecting-correction-results.html)

Miscible and Immiscible - Wax and Paint Sealant Bonding (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/31186-miscible-immiscible-wax-paint-sealant-bonding.html)


For most of history of man as it relates to washing and waxing a car, people would wipe the polish off and then apply the wax and then move on with life. You can make washing and waxing your car as simple as possible or as complicated as possible, on discussion forums the trend is usually the latter...

:)

It's not redundant if it extends the durability of the lsp as in my example. Just my .02

Sent from my HTC Thunderbolt using Tapatalk.

[2old2change]

Like Mike has said in the past - he has never came out the next morning and found that all the wax has fell off the car and in a pile on the ground. For durability personal use I have found most OCD members will re-apply LSP before needed anyway. On customers cars if it lasted forever they wouldn't need us but once.

[Mike Phillips]

It's not redundant if it extends the durability of the lsp as in my example. Just my .02







sometimes I will use a paint cleaner even after polishing and doing a wipedown with Eraser.




I don't disagree with your procedure because I'm a big fan of finding products and procedures that work for you and then using them...


I thought the entire idea behind maximizing the durability of an LSP was to maximize the bonding of the protection ingredients to the surface of the paint?

So what I've seen people get all emotional over on this topic was stripping the paint of any polishing oils or lubricating agents or fillers so the surface is completely clean and free of any ingredient that would interfere with the bonding of the protection ingredients.

If that's the case, then wouldn't the polishing oils, or agents or lubricating oils in the P21S also have to be chemically stripped before application of the LSP?

Me personally, I don't like to make any process more complicated than it has to be and I explained thoroughly my take on this topic in my article,

Miscible and Immiscible - Wax and Paint Sealant Bonding (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/31186-miscible-immiscible-wax-paint-sealant-bonding.html)

And that is to follow the manufacturer's recommendations.



:xyxthumbs:

[Flannigan]

I don't disagree with your procedure because I'm a big fan of finding products and procedures that work for you and then using them...


I thought the entire idea behind maximizing the durability of an LSP was to maximize the bonding of the protection ingredients to the surface of the paint?

So what I've seen people get all emotional over on this topic was stripping the paint of any polishing oils or lubricating agents or fillers so the surface is completely clean and free of any ingredient that would interfere with the bonding of the protection ingredients.

If that's the case, then wouldn't the polishing oils, or agents or lubricating oils in the P21S also have to be chemically stripped before application of the LSP?

Me personally, I don't like to make any process more complicated than it has to be and I explained thoroughly my take on this topic in my article,

Miscible and Immiscible - Wax and Paint Sealant Bonding (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/31186-miscible-immiscible-wax-paint-sealant-bonding.html)

And that is to follow the manufacturer's recommendations.



:xyxthumbs:
When doing a wipedown prior to a paint cleaner, that is to check my work and make sure nothing was being filled, not to prep for the LSP. the cleaner will prep for the LSP. The way I look at it if Ultima designed UPPP to work with UPGP its ok to use without a wipedown in between. All I know if I always see customers with LSP still there far past the advertised durability of that product. The only reason I can see for that is my extra step.

[Mike Phillips]

The way I look at it if Ultima designed UPPP to work with UPGP its ok to use without a wipedown in between.




Exactly, and you make my point in my article,

Miscible and Immiscible - Wax and Paint Sealant Bonding

Here's an excerpt...




So unless a manufacturer specifically states or recommends that an automotive paint finish must be stripped clean for their wax or paint sealant to properly bond or adhere, then I think it's safe to say that the chemist behind the brand has created their wax and paint sealant formulas to use the same miscible oils, (or other miscible substances), in their surface prep products to aid in the bonding or adhering of the protection ingredients used in their waxes and/or paint sealants to paint.

This would be called, Synergistic Chemical Compatibility.




That's also in keeping with not making washing and waxing a car rocket science...

:dblthumb2:

[2old2change]

All I know if I always see customers with LSP still there far past the advertised durability of that product. The only reason I can see for that is my extra step.

If any LSP didn't last beyond their advertised durability then it would no longer have a place in my arsenal. :buffing:

[Flannigan]

If any LSP didn't last beyond their advertised durability then it would no longer have a place in my arsenal. :buffing:
Um, what? Why wouldn't you want to get great durability out of an LSP for your customer?