Ultimate Polish and M205 Problems

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

Hey fellas,

Was just trying to work in UP and it was flash drying on me after just three passes. I was following up Ultimate compound. I switched over to M205 and again the same thing only after 4-5 passes. The vehicle recieving the treatment is a red C5 Vette. I had to IPA the dried on polish. Any ideas why my stuff was flash drying on me? Also both products less than 2 years old.

Thanks

[Ginnova]

you might be using too much product. work also on a small area at a time.

[FUNX650]

Hey fellas,

Was just trying to work in UP and it was flash drying on me after just three passes. I was following up Ultimate compound. I switched over to M205 and again the same thing only after 4-5 passes. The vehicle recieving the treatment is a red C5 Vette. I had to IPA the dried on polish. Any ideas why my stuff was flash drying on me? Also both products less than 2 years old.

Thanks

Could be the detailing area/vehicle's:
-panels'/area's temp
-humidity [relative and absolute(dew point)]
-ambient temp
-wind speed...including fans (if applicable)

Probably a few more environmental causes that's not listed...

Hope you get everything tuned in!


:)

Bob

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

Bob,

Car was in garage the during the process in 65 degrees Las vegas weather. No fans so no wind. I would imagine low humidity.

Ginnova,

I might have been using to much product now that I think about it. If I over apply polish would that cause it to flash dry on me?

[tw33k2514]

What kind of speed and pressure was being used?

[FUNX650]

Bob,
Car was in garage the during the process in 65 degrees Las vegas weather. No fans so no wind. I would imagine low humidity.


That can pretty much rule out my previous thoughts, then.

I suppose it gets back to the products/processes...Their ages, exposure to different storage temp ranges; machine/arm speeds, pressure; pads...priming, type, condition....

Just me guessing....Probably not much help, Sorry...
Wish I was there...Might be able to take a more educated stab at your dilemma.

:)

Bob

EDIT: Low humidity, coupled with medium temps is not always a good thing....Less moisture in the 'air'...if you get my drift.

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

I was using both products on Megs foam finishing pads. Of course one pad per product. Both were being used on the 3 and 4 speed range. I think I over lubricated the pad and finish. I got out of control because at first it was going fine then I kept adding more and more product thinking that I would get a longer buffing cycle but I saw that it was getting worse. In which case I stopped what I was doing.

[FUNX650]

I was using both products on Megs foam finishing pads. Of course one pad per product. Both were being used on the 3 and 4 speed range. I think I over lubricated the pad and finish. I got out of control because at first it was going fine then I kept adding more and more product thinking that I would get a longer buffing cycle but I saw that it was getting worse. In which case I stopped what I was doing.

Glad you found the culprit, and the solution!!

:)

Bob

[Danube]

I was using both products on Megs foam finishing pads. Of course one pad per product. Both were being used on the 3 and 4 speed range. I think I over lubricated the pad and finish. I got out of control because at first it was going fine then I kept adding more and more product thinking that I would get a longer buffing cycle but I saw that it was getting worse. In which case I stopped what I was doing.


Happened at least once to many of us.

:xyxthumbs:

[ArkayoDeetayo]

how could adding more product cause it to dry faster? if anything, wouldn't it cause longer buffing time and more lubricating agents? how is it dry buffing with MORE product?

[FUNX650]

how could adding more product cause it to dry faster? if anything, wouldn't it cause longer buffing time and more lubricating agents? how is it dry buffing with MORE product?

I'm with you on this one...Sounds unbelievable to me also!

But this is how it was explained to me a long time ago (not saying it's true, or not so true):

-Mild/Fine abrasive polishes won't stand a lot of heat...
-The actual combined weight of the machine, pad, and product will be factors, in calculating the friction-quotient, as these elements are then placed upon vehicle panels.
-This doesn't even take into account the weight of a person's hand(s). Or,
-The downward pressures (gravity, force).

Anyway....
-Friction is a by-product of one object 'rubbing' against another.
-Weights of the objects being "rubbed" are factors in determining friction-quotients
-Friction equals heat. Heat causes "dry conditions". Dry conditions causes drying-out.
-Less product=less weight.


[Hope someone can better and further explain this phenomenon.
"It just seems to be true under certain empirical testing methods", sometimes isn't enough facts-based to go on, IMO.]

:)

Bob

[ArkayoDeetayo]

I'm with you on this one...Sounds unbelievable to me also!

But this is how it was explained to me a long time ago (not saying it's true, or not so true):

-Mild/Fine abrasive polishes won't stand a lot of heat...
-The actual combined weight of the machine, pad, and product will be factors, in calculating the friction-quotient, as these elements are then placed upon vehicle panels.
-This doesn't even take into account the weight of a person's hand(s). Or,
-The downward pressures (gravity, force).

Anyway....
-Friction is a by-product of one object 'rubbing' against another.
-Weights of the objects being "rubbed" are factors in determining friction-quotients
-Friction equals heat. Heat causes "dry conditions". Dry conditions causes drying-out.
-Less product=less weight.


[Hope someone can better and further explain this phenomenon.
"It just seems to be true under certain empirical testing methods", sometimes isn't enough facts-based to go on, IMO.]

:)

Bob

thanks Bob, that makes sense whether it is factual or not, learn something new everyday, glad AG has someone like you to spread the knowledge

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

Thanks for the info and the help fellas

[Rix6]

You had 15% humidity. Any localized heating means the air humidity at the air/liquid interface is going to drop below that 15% so it's going to be even hungrier for moisture. In addition to a little bit of convection, the rotating action of the pad means that the frequency of fluid to air collisions is going to go way up, so more water moves from product to very dry, moving air. You in the shade so the major factor at work are relative humidity, temperature, and pad rotation speed. You're going to need a lot more moisture in the air to keep the water in the product for any appreciable amount of time.

M205 is indeed water based, right? Get a spray bottle of distilled water and keep it handy. If the stuff is drying out before you want it too, give it a few spritzes of H2O until the consistency is back where you expect it to be. Problem solved.

-Rick

[FUNX650]

You had 15% humidity. Any localized heating means the air humidity at the air/liquid interface is going to drop below that 15% so it's going to be even hungrier for moisture. In addition to a little bit of convection, the rotating action of the pad means that the frequency of fluid to air collisions is going to go way up, so more water moves from product to very dry, moving air. You in the shade so the major factor at work are relative humidity, temperature, and pad rotation speed. You're going to need a lot more moisture in the air to keep the water in the product for any appreciable amount of time.

M205 is indeed water based, right? Get a spray bottle of distilled water and keep it handy. If the stuff is drying out before you want it too, give it a few spritzes of H2O until the consistency is back where you expect it to be. Problem solved.

-Rick


Thanks for your very informative post, Rick.
(Kinda like what I was getting at earlier but not as clearly stated.)

If I may inquire:
-Would you also agree that using too much product is not always conducive to the polishing processes?
Thanks in advance for any input you may offer on this subject matter.



-panels'/area's temp
-humidity [relative and absolute(dew point)]
-ambient temp



EDIT: Low humidity, coupled with medium temps is not always a good thing....Less moisture in the 'air'...if you get my drift.

:)

Bob