Motorcycle Scratches on New Motorcycle.

[jhkunkel]

My first question is, "How do I remove tiny scratches on my new (metallic black) motorcycle? These are scratches from the dealer wiping down the cycle on the showroom floor.

I've used some swirl remover, (Meguiar's), but now have new scratches going in another direction. I usually do not see this problem when detailing my cars.
Thanks to all,
Jim

[crxman2010]

What are you using to apply swirl x? I would start with less pressure more passes or a combination of less aggressive applicator/polish.

I just recently did a correction on the a vivid black (non metallic) harley and it wasn't hard to add new swirls.

For the machine polishing portion, I used CCS 4" orange, white, gray pads respectively with Opti Compound II, Polish II, and Finish Polish. Worked out great.
For the hand portion, I used the CCS hand applicators in white and red with Polish II. I had planned on only use the white pad, but more often then not I was adding new swirls with the white pad and polish II. So I tried the red finishing pad with some polish II and this removed the swirls without adding any new ones as long as the pressure was kept light.

[crxman2010]

A little more scratching then just dealer wipe down, but cleaned up great. Staring my photographer/flash light girl...at times I just took her word that it wasn't quite perfect and did another pass...she was quite the pain in the rear considering she was inspecting her bike and took her job very seriously.

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/1361/photo1hsj.jpg
http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/3523/photo2cj.jpg

Also applied opti-coat to see if we could cut down on the number of small scratches, and if not, next time I will be polishing the opti-coat instead of the paint which is a bonus.

Almost done
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/8351/photo3jvg.jpg
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/1646/photo4mpw.jpg

After
http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/4467/photo5xsn.jpg

[Mike Phillips]

Working on clear coats by hand takes more skill than using a DA Polisher.

By hand you have to use very good if not expert technique, the right product and a clean, soft foam applicator pad.

By machine with ANY of the DA's, just use a polishing pad and quality polish and the machine takes care of all the technique for you.


I've taught literally thousands of people how to remove scratches by hand so it can be done but it still will never look as good as the results you can get by using a machine.


I worked for Meguiar's for 11 years and was the Primary Instructor for all their classes at their Corporate Office from 2002 to 2009. I'm very familiar with their polishes so let me see if I can work you through how to remove the scratches by hand.

First, which polish or scratch remover were you using?


:xyxthumbs:

[Mike Phillips]

A little more scratching then just dealer wipe down, but cleaned up great.




crxman2010,

Did you remove the scratches by hand or machine?


Also,

Roll Call - What's your real first name? (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/off-topic/33701-roll-call-what-s-your-real-first-name.html)



:xyxthumbs:

[Mike Phillips]

Here's a few articles on working by hand...



Polishing Paint by Hand

Foam Applicator Pads at Autogeek.net (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-tools-accessories/32004-foam-applicator-pads-autogeek-net.html)

Priming your pad when working by hand (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/36178-priming-your-pad-when-working-hand.html)

Removing Scratches By Hand (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/31475-removing-scratches-hand.html)

How to use a hand applied abrasive polish or paint cleaner by hand (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/26612-how-use-hand-applied-abrasive-polish-paint-cleaner-hand.html) <-- Goes over technique


:)

[crxman2010]

crxman2010,

Did you remove the scratches by hand or machine?


:xyxthumbs:

Combination, most of the hard work was done with a Griot's 6" with the above listed 4" pads in post #2. There were several areas the machine just couldn't get it done due to the contours and frame so I used hand pads to clean up those areas. A lot of it was just that the contours would stop the pad with any amount pressure so I couldn't get the swirls out. Once the swirls were out by hand, a gray pad on the da with little pressure would keep spinning in those areas so I was able to do most of the bike by machine with finishing polish which definitely helped in terms of beauty.

[Mike Phillips]

Combination, most of the hard work was done with a Griot's 6" with the above listed 4" pads in post #2.


I was typing so fast and then going to a meeting I missed post #2 (sorry)





There were several areas the machine just couldn't get it done due to the contours and frame so I used hand pads to clean up those areas. A lot of it was just that the contours would stop the pad with any amount pressure so I couldn't get the swirls out. Once the swirls were out by hand, a gray pad on the da with little pressure would keep spinning in those areas so I was able to do most of the bike by machine with finishing polish which definitely helped in terms of beauty.

You described a perfect approach.


Not sure if the OP of this thread owns a machine or is interested in getting one but it would be the best way to remove the scratches and restore a clear, high gloss finish both now and into the future because it's inevitable that there will be future scratches in his Motorcycle and anything else he drives.

That said, as a community I'm confident we can help see him through to success working by hand...


:xyxthumbs:

[crxman2010]

On the topic of Black motorcycles ;), seeing how the paint looked before I started, reminded why I don't want a black car. Seeing the paint afterwards, kind of makes me want a black car :D. (just not as my dd...)

[jhkunkel]

I was using Woflgang total Swirl Remover. I think I was using too much presuure on the pad 4" Blue. I'll try it again with lighter pressure and the orange 4' pad.


What are you using to apply swirl x? I would start with less pressure more passes or a combination of less aggressive applicator/polish.

I just recently did a correction on the a vivid black (non metallic) harley and it wasn't hard to add new swirls.

For the machine polishing portion, I used CCS 4" orange, white, gray pads respectively with Opti Compound II, Polish II, and Finish Polish. Worked out great.
For the hand portion, I used the CCS hand applicators in white and red with Polish II. I had planned on only use the white pad, but more often then not I was adding new swirls with the white pad and polish II. So I tried the red finishing pad with some polish II and this removed the swirls without adding any new ones as long as the pressure was kept light.[/QUOTE]

[jhkunkel]

Wolfgang Total 3.0



Working on clear coats by hand takes more skill than using a DA Polisher.

By hand you have to use very good if not expert technique, the right product and a clean, soft foam applicator pad.

By machine with ANY of the DA's, just use a polishing pad and quality polish and the machine takes care of all the technique for you.


I've taught literally thousands of people how to remove scratches by hand so it can be done but it still will never look as good as the results you can get by using a machine.


I worked for Meguiar's for 11 years and was the Primary Instructor for all their classes at their Corporate Office from 2002 to 2009. I'm very familiar with their polishes so let me see if I can work you through how to remove the scratches by hand.

First, which polish or scratch remover were you using?


:xyxthumbs:

[jhkunkel]

Forgot to mention, I've been using the "PORTER CABLE 7335 Variable- Speed Random-Orbital" which I purchased from Meguiar's about 6 years ago. What is the difference between this DA and the 7424XP. Should I replace with a newer model? The 7335 seems to "bog" down with very little pressure.

[crxman2010]

Forgot to mention, I've been using the "PORTER CABLE 7335 Variable- Speed Random-Orbital" which I purchased from Meguiar's about 6 years ago. What is the difference between this DA and the 7424XP. Should I replace with a newer model? The 7335 seems to "bog" down with very little pressure.

I don't know if in this case a lack of power is going to cause you any issues, just make sure the pad keeps spinning so that no additional marks are caused by that.

Do you have any other polishes on hand?

For these fine swirls you are talking about, I wouldn't go to a orange pad, maybe a white if you have it, otherwise stick with the blue I would think (I have never used a blue pad, not sure when it refers to being dense, how dense it actually is). I only had problems with white leaving swirls when using it by hand, by DA my white pads finished off nicely. And are those 4" pads the CCS style from LC? I haven't used any Menzerna products (makes the wolfgang swirl 3.0), but if you are using them with CCS style pads, I don't know how well the diminishing abrasives would be working. If those pockets in the pad are constantly introducing new polish that hasn't broke down yet, that could explain why it is not finishing off well.

I would definitely reduce pressure and maybe increase work time if the polish will hand it (should help make sure all the polish is breaking down) and see how that works out for you.

Any idea what speed (opm) you are running?

And regarding why you have never noticed the problem with your vehicles, could just be a matter of how soft the paint is and/or the color (using flat pads on your cars with 3.0?). My bike is sedona orange and it is hard to show people scratches on it without about perfect lighting/angle and forget about finding swirls on it.

[Mike Phillips]

I was using Wolfgang total Swirl Remover. I think I was using too much pressure on the pad 4" Blue. I'll try it again with lighter pressure and the orange 4' pad.


The blue foam pad is a soft finishing or wax pad. With the Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover its not very likely to remove scratches unless the paint is very soft.

Try using either a orange cutting pad like you mention or a white polishing pad.





Forgot to mention, I've been using the "PORTER CABLE 7335 Variable- Speed Random-Orbital" which I purchased from Meguiar's about 6 years ago.

What is the difference between this DA and the 7424XP. Should I replace with a newer model? The 7335 seems to "bog" down with very little pressure.



The newer model is better at maintaining pad rotation than the first generation. The key to maintaining pad rotation is to keep the pad flat to the surface. Shouldn't be too much of a problem wit 4" pads or 5.5" pads.

The thicker, larger pads tend to be too much for the first gen PC's to rotate effectively, especially as they become wet or saturated with your product.

I wrote this article specifically for people that own the first gen PC's You can find the below article an many more for the PC in my article list (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/23722-articles-mike-phillips.html) under Dual Action Polishers



The short how-to guide for using a DA Polisher
How to maximize the ability of the 1st Generation Porter Cable Dual Action Polishers (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/27166-how-maximize-ability-1st-gen-porter-cable-dual-action-polishers.html)



:buffing:

[TLMitchell]

The OP doesn't mention what make/model of bike he's working on. As CRXMAN knows, H-D's Vivid Black is extremely soft, especially on the tank and tin. They use a clear powdercoat on the tanks vs traditional clear. I can only guess it may be due to better fuel-spill resistance. All of my fiberglass polishes out great and isn't prone to marring with a wipe-off. On dressers the fiberglass bits get shot at Tomahawk, WI and all the tin is fabricated and painted in York, PA so there's no surprise they use different application methods and possibly materials. The tank is most problematic and swirls if you look at it crosseyed. Just wiping off polish or LSP residue leaves marks. I've alleviated most of that by using my softest WWs misted with M34 for residue removal. Like Crxman I used Opti Coat to hopefully harden the finish and increase swirl resistance. So far so good.

Nick Chapman had an article on MOL quite a while ago where he had a super-soft Colorado that wouldn't finish out no-way, no-how. After trying everything in his considerable arsenal he stumbled on a solution that most would never consider...he used a yellow LC cutting pad with M205 and produced an incredible, flawless, mirror finish. I tried that outside-the-box, thinking backwards method and discovered a cutting pad with a finishing polish or a finishing pad with M105 produced an excellent finish! Who woulda thunk it?

My last go-round before the Opti Coat I used M105 and 3+" Meg's MF for defect removal. The MF pads haze considerably on soft black but it made defect removal, especially on the contours, quick n easy. I refined with 85RD then Opti Coat using a CarPro sueded MF covering a foam pad. The unavoidable marring you're going to get on the tank from your leg rubbing against it and marring from bug removal has been greatly reduced and a hand application of Poli Seal remedies most of it quite easily.

TL