Disapointed

[bobwhite1]

I recently purchased the Pinicle starter detail kit after much discussion here in the forums. I have a 2002 saturn SL1 that except for some minor chips and swirles was in excellent shape paint wise. After washing the car I applied the products as directed (by hand, no PC) and although many of the swirles disappeared many did not. The Carnauba Finishing Glaze seemed to work great, but the Liquid Souveran Wax didn't seem to do much more for the shine. Perhaps I was expecting to much because everyone else thinks it look great. Perhaps about 6 or so months from now I'll redo it using a different and courser swirl remover. The one thing it did bring out was small pimple size pock marks that really wern't that noticeable before. Is there a product I can use to cover them up some without painting? Their not really noticeable until you get right up on the car. I'm including a photo to show what they look like. TIA Bob

[Lone_Star]

Bob sorry to hear of your disappointment. Have you considerd getting a PC or something similar. I was skeptical at first of the difference between hand work and a PC and what a difference. Might want to consider.

[Meghan]

Bob give us a list of the steps and exact products you used so we can better help you.

[JoeD]

Hi Bob, sorry to hear that you are not that happy with your results, but as stated by Lone Star, you will see a Big Difference when using a PC. Yes, you will get some results when detailing by hand but not as Good as when using a PC. The swirls, shine and depth of your paint will be greatly improved when using a PC. As for the small pock marks, just a guess but it could be some polish build up in the imperfections of the paint. Try some rubbing alcohol diluted with water on a small section and see if it cleans them up. If so then you know that it was polish and wax that you are seeing. Just a though! Good Luck! JoeD

[abrcrombe]

I am guessing what you had used on the car before had HEAVY fillers. Those hid the marks and when you applied the polishes by hand, you removed the fillers. The glaze and liquid souveran don't have heavy fillers and the marks are now visible.

Prep is the main part of making a car look great, and glaze/wax only accounts for maybe 10% of the entire car. Once you get a PC and learn how to use it correctly, I hope you will have a different view on Pinnacle.

[ltoman]

I have worked on that Saturn paint - on a gold SW2, 2001. The swirls were BAD when we picked it up, and gold is pretty good at hiding that sort of stuff. I used XMT 3 on it and really gave it to it with the pc, then I used XMT 1. Then I put the XMT glaze and some Meg's #16. Looks a thousand times better. And of course, those models did not dent, so there is a distinctive advantage.
I really think you need the pc!

[FloridaNative]

Polishing a car by hand can at best only remove oxidation and the lightest of swirls. Your hand simply cannot mimic the speed generated by a machine. I would invest in a buffer if you are serious about removing those swirls. Best of luck to you.

[bobwhite1]

As usual quick and replies. Let me first answer Meghan: I washed the car throughly with Poboy wash consentrate and dried it with a shamy Cobra Mango Breeze Microfiber Towel. Then I applied Pinnacle XMT Fine Swirl Remover #2 then applied the XMT Ultra Fine Swirl Remover #1 using the orange side of the Polish N Wax Applicator. I used the Cobra Mango Microfiber Towel to buff away the residue both times. I then applied the XMT Carnauba Finishing Glaze with the gray side of the Applicator and buffed it with the Microfiber Towel. I then applied Pinnacle Liquid Souveran and buffed it with a clean Microfiber Towel. About 4 days later I washed the car and applied Pinnacle Crystal Mist. One thing I was very happy about was that on both fenders there was a place on each one that was the size of a large potato that looked like it was rubbed with emory cloth or some abrasive making it very dull and some scratches on the rear bumper both both left side doors. All of these, which I considered the worst damage to the appearance of the car. I was able to remove all of this to the point that even by close inspection they cannot be seen. Actually the hood even with the deep shine it has now is the real disappointment and most of that is the small pock marks. If i can tone them down I would be a very happy camper. Oh yes right now the PC is out of the question, but If I keep the car as I plan to right now I most likely buy one. Bob

[bobwhite1]

Let me add one thing I do have a 8" buffer but afraid of adding swirls if I use it. Bob

[Meghan]

" a shamy Cobra Mango Breeze Microfiber Towel"
I assume you are meaning to say, Guzzler, if not Mango is not the best for drying. Try the Guzzler instead.

" Then I applied Pinnacle XMT Fine Swirl Remover #2 then applied the XMT Ultra Fine Swirl Remover #1 using the orange side of the Polish N Wax Applicator."

These products can be used my hand but if your car is in need of a bit of help you will only see amazing results if used with a polisher. Hand will work if the car is not in bad shape, but with any Swirl Remover, the speed the polisher creates absolutely blows away the results you will see by hand, just my opinion.
XMT Carnauba Finishing Glaze is a great product and it should conceal a lot of the left over blemishes. Best when topped with a Carnauba.

"...small pock marks"
Not sure exactly what these are, I am trying to figure it out with your picture..
All in all I would say your steps are good, just sounds like you car is in the catagory of "needing a polisher", I am sure everyone can chime in and let us know what they think.Feed back please

[Nica]

... but the Liquid Souveran Wax didn't seem to do much more for the shine.

Hi bobwhite1, first of all sorry to hear of your experience but I don't really think it's the wax's fault and I'll explain why. The Liquid Souveran Wax, is intended more for light color vehicles. Before I started reading this forum, I thought wax was wax and they were all the same but I learned from reading and own personal experience that different wax are best for different types of color's. I purchased the Liquid Souveran Wax specifically for my silver color SUV and it worked just fine, I also purchased paste Souveran for my darker color vehicles. I'm was like you, I used to think that any machine would just damage the paint rather then help it, but after using the PC on almost all my vehicles I'm convinced that it would be impossible to get the shine I got with the PC using my bare hands. Well those are just my thoughts buddy, please don't take it the wrong way or think that I'm trying to say you’re wrong I'm right....just sharing my opinion that's all.


The one thing it did bring out was small pimple size pock marks that really wern't that noticeable before.

As for the pimple size rock chips, I agree with JoeD that this is caused by the wax getting in the rock chips and the residue turns white and that makes for a more noticeable rock chip. I used to get this on a RXC I used to own, especially on the hood.

Hopefully we will see you around and don't be scared of using a PC on your vehicle, it's impossible to damage your paint with the PC. Just have to make sure you know how to use the products.

[Kelso]

is the PC really that expensive? i know before i bought mine i was thinking its not worth it to have amachine to just apply wax but after i got it and started using it correctly, it is really not an expensive piece of machinery. it does so much more than i could have thought possible since until then i mainly worked by hand and never used swirl removers. i guess what im saying is, the PC is worth it in the end. if not the saturn, then your next car, and the next one, and when your neighbor sees how good your car looks they will say hey bob, wanna do mine for X dollars? your vehicles will always need paint maintenence so start early i say

[orngez]

if you have already bought the xmt products you definitely need to get a pc...try to find one cheap at a lowes (if they still have one) or just order one on AG...my orginal pc lasted for almost 6 years and made me thousands of dollars...the recent one I purchaed from AG has already payed for itself as well in the few detailings i have done for the people in my condo complex...the rock chips are very evident now because the xmt polishes are very difficult to fully break down by hand and have basically clogged up those rock chips...some water and ipa mixed 50/50 should help to get the polishes out of the rock chips....

[AUdakota]

I was in the same boat you were a couple months ago. I bought the XMT hand polishing kit thinking that I would be able to get most of the swirls out just with hand power and polishing pad they give you. I tried this and did not notice much a difference and soon realized that it would take me 20 hours to do the whole truck and it still wouldnt be that good. So I went ahead and got the PC and let me tell you i was scared and skeptical at first but after watching the videos and what not on here I decided I could handle it. My first attempt came out pretty good, but I need to get a more aggressive polish......

In other words unless your hand can orbit 3500 times a minute I would go ahead and get a PC

[ryandamartini]

First you need to get a PC. It is ESSENTIAL to remove swirls. Seeing as your surface was not able to be properly preped, I could see why Souveran didnt leave a great shine as it usually does.

Remember:

wash->clay->polish->wax

Wash/ Dry
Car Wash Guide: easy steps to shampoo and dry your vehicle using paint-safe mitts and towels, plus sponges, the Grit Guard and buckets. auto shampoo, (http://www.autogeek.net/exterior.html)

Clay
Clean with Auto Detailing Clay: how to remove paint contamination using poly clay detailing clay bar and clay lubricant. Pinnacle Poly Clay, (http://www.autogeek.net/detailing-clay-bar.html)

Polish:
Dual Action Orbital Polisher Guide: how to remove swirls, scratches, & oxidation with an orbital buffer. Porter Cable 7424, foam pads, backing plate, (http://www.autogeek.net/dual-action-polisher.html)

Wax:
Carnauba Car Wax vs. Paint Sealants (http://www.autogeek.net/qude101.html)