Hoytman
02-08-2012, 01:16 AM
After reading Corey's most excellent review on a certain wool wash mitt, I went back and reviewed the videos a second time. I did this because I noticed something that caught my eye right off the bat the first time when I viewed the video clips.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/product-reviews/45955-review-carpro-2-fingers-mini-wool-wash-mitt.html
Evem though I'm not new to AGO it was almost as if I was viewing Corey's post as if it was the first post I'd ever read on this forum, let alone the first detailing thread one might read. I'm not sure why I had images flash through my mind of a newbie seeing this nice quality mitt and wanting to use it on a real dirty car. That's when I noticed the fibers laying flat and it disturbed me to think what kind of damage a newbie could unknowingly inflict on their car.
Now, so there's no misunderstanding, my thoughts are not a knock on Corey's most excellent review. I thought he put things into proper perspective on the kind of car this certain mitt should be used on, that being a well kept car that isn't too dirty to start with. It's also not a knock on this mitt's manufacturer, so don't even go there. I don't think this mitt was intended to be used on an real dirty car in the first place. It seems it's more of pampering mitt for an exotic, or even a simple well maintained DD...one that rarely goes more than a few days without a wash. We all know these people, and they know who they are.
I'm not a guru when it comes to detailing and I don't claim to be, but I do want to share my thoughts and I would like others to chime in with their thoughts on this subject as well. Some may have the opinion that I'm over-thinking this and they're entitled to that opinion. However, as detailers aren't we supposed to be thinking of the minute things anyway?
My thoughts and comments are based upon the context of long fibers vs. short fibers and how they react during washing. An even greater point of emphasis being: How long can the fibers be before you begin to see diminishing returns? That being simply pushing dirt around vs. getting it up and off of the paint.
There are factors that can effect a mitts ability to pick up dirt such as fiber type, fiber length, even fiber diameter, and objects such as trim pieces that fibers may catch on, even dirrt particle size plays a part. What about encapsulating polymers that trap the dirt within the water molecules? Molecules...huh? Now I'm getting over my own head ha ha.
What I observed in the video were long, wet, stuck together fibers. Now on Skybaby this won't present an issue, but on more dirty cars I can see issues should the uninformed try to use it on such. Obviously you'd want to blast away most of the grunge with a hard spray of water. Still there will be dirt left on anything but an immaculately kept car.
So then, imagine a tradiitional wet floor mop being dragged over your paint. I've never been a fan of those wet mops on floors because all they do is push around what little dirt may be left from brooming or dust mopping. The wet mop fingers always lag behind the mop handle unless you pick the handle up and change the direction. Even then a wet mop has two sides, and we hope that each individual strand of cotton will work its way to the floor to pick up dirt. Ever wet mopped a floor two or three times to get it clean? I have. Ever notice the trend towards microfiber mops these days? Now they're being advertised with sprayers that spray water ahead of the mophead itself. They most certainly are better in certain instances, as is a wet mop.
Given the above analogy it's easy to see that too long of a fiber in a wash mitt has potential to react just like a wet mop on a dirty car, simply pushing dirt around rather than the dirt being forced up and into the fibers and away from the paint. The goal isn't just getting the car clean, it's removing dirt as quickly and efficiently as possible by lifting it off of the paint ASAP so the paint doesn't get all swirled up. The change of direction with the mitt is important to note regarding fiber length in the context of this discussion.
In the context of light dirt from sitting in a garage, or from a short drive of a clean car and wanting to clean it before being put back into the garage, the long and extemely soft wool fibers of the CarPro mitt are certainly the most gentle on the paint. This is where (imo) the very fine and close knit, or close together fibers, do NOT present an issue. Either when cleaning or in rinsing of the mitt. Thee's not enough dirt to worry about.
Too long of a fiber, as in the CarPro mitt will (imo) present an issue on a dirtier car simply because the fibers will not "flip" with the change of direction, and expose clean dirt attracting fibers, unless you pick the mitt up off of the paint. How many are willing to do that with every swipe?
Now imagine a soft, fine or coarse, short wool fiber, or short micro fibers. I mention micro fibers because I haven't seen a microfiber mitt yet that has fibers so long that they don't change directions with the natural flow of things, exposing clean fibers to pick up the dirt. Think of these short fibers as you would a soft horse hair brush, or even a tooth brush. The bristles change direction when you move the brush in the opposite direction opening up the inner most part of the bristles. It seems to me that this is how short fibers would react thus allowing dirt to move up and into the wash mitt and away from the paint ASAP. This is the goal to prevent unwanted swirls and scratching.
IMO, good foam mitts, though hard to find otc, can accomplish great results as well. Fine dirt is push up an into the foam fibers where it's trapped usually forever. Thus they'll need replacing often. Again, lots of factors can effect how well foam works.
Combine the right mitt in the right situation along with grit guards and the two bucket method and your paint will stay nice for a long time.
I wish I had some pictures to illustrate what I see in my head. Hopefully I've been able to articulate in wrting my thougts so folks can visualize what I'm talking about.
I guess when I seen Corey's review I thought, "Boy, I hope no one takes his review out of context and tries to use a CarPro, or other long fiber wool mitt on a real dirty car."
IMO (for my own personal use):
For well kept cars long fiber wool mitts are great and should be use on this type of well kept car to be as gentle as possible on the paint.
For slightly dirtier cars (DD)I think shorter wool, cotton chenille, or microfibers work great.
For real dirty cars I like to first blast away the worst of the grunge and grime with water, then move to a sponge mitt, and finally a short fiber mitt.
Why waste and destroy a good mitt on an extremely dirty car?
Customers cars throw another factor into play. I lean more towards using a quality new, or slightly used mitt on certain cars. Bottom line on customers cars...Make absolute certain no marring can take place with whatever mitt you decide to use on the car. New or used mitt, it's your decision, but I'd say err on the side of using extreme caution.
Comments welcome. Rebutal's...go ahead...I won't be able to reply because my fingers are broke. LOL!!!
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/product-reviews/45955-review-carpro-2-fingers-mini-wool-wash-mitt.html
Evem though I'm not new to AGO it was almost as if I was viewing Corey's post as if it was the first post I'd ever read on this forum, let alone the first detailing thread one might read. I'm not sure why I had images flash through my mind of a newbie seeing this nice quality mitt and wanting to use it on a real dirty car. That's when I noticed the fibers laying flat and it disturbed me to think what kind of damage a newbie could unknowingly inflict on their car.
Now, so there's no misunderstanding, my thoughts are not a knock on Corey's most excellent review. I thought he put things into proper perspective on the kind of car this certain mitt should be used on, that being a well kept car that isn't too dirty to start with. It's also not a knock on this mitt's manufacturer, so don't even go there. I don't think this mitt was intended to be used on an real dirty car in the first place. It seems it's more of pampering mitt for an exotic, or even a simple well maintained DD...one that rarely goes more than a few days without a wash. We all know these people, and they know who they are.
I'm not a guru when it comes to detailing and I don't claim to be, but I do want to share my thoughts and I would like others to chime in with their thoughts on this subject as well. Some may have the opinion that I'm over-thinking this and they're entitled to that opinion. However, as detailers aren't we supposed to be thinking of the minute things anyway?
My thoughts and comments are based upon the context of long fibers vs. short fibers and how they react during washing. An even greater point of emphasis being: How long can the fibers be before you begin to see diminishing returns? That being simply pushing dirt around vs. getting it up and off of the paint.
There are factors that can effect a mitts ability to pick up dirt such as fiber type, fiber length, even fiber diameter, and objects such as trim pieces that fibers may catch on, even dirrt particle size plays a part. What about encapsulating polymers that trap the dirt within the water molecules? Molecules...huh? Now I'm getting over my own head ha ha.
What I observed in the video were long, wet, stuck together fibers. Now on Skybaby this won't present an issue, but on more dirty cars I can see issues should the uninformed try to use it on such. Obviously you'd want to blast away most of the grunge with a hard spray of water. Still there will be dirt left on anything but an immaculately kept car.
So then, imagine a tradiitional wet floor mop being dragged over your paint. I've never been a fan of those wet mops on floors because all they do is push around what little dirt may be left from brooming or dust mopping. The wet mop fingers always lag behind the mop handle unless you pick the handle up and change the direction. Even then a wet mop has two sides, and we hope that each individual strand of cotton will work its way to the floor to pick up dirt. Ever wet mopped a floor two or three times to get it clean? I have. Ever notice the trend towards microfiber mops these days? Now they're being advertised with sprayers that spray water ahead of the mophead itself. They most certainly are better in certain instances, as is a wet mop.
Given the above analogy it's easy to see that too long of a fiber in a wash mitt has potential to react just like a wet mop on a dirty car, simply pushing dirt around rather than the dirt being forced up and into the fibers and away from the paint. The goal isn't just getting the car clean, it's removing dirt as quickly and efficiently as possible by lifting it off of the paint ASAP so the paint doesn't get all swirled up. The change of direction with the mitt is important to note regarding fiber length in the context of this discussion.
In the context of light dirt from sitting in a garage, or from a short drive of a clean car and wanting to clean it before being put back into the garage, the long and extemely soft wool fibers of the CarPro mitt are certainly the most gentle on the paint. This is where (imo) the very fine and close knit, or close together fibers, do NOT present an issue. Either when cleaning or in rinsing of the mitt. Thee's not enough dirt to worry about.
Too long of a fiber, as in the CarPro mitt will (imo) present an issue on a dirtier car simply because the fibers will not "flip" with the change of direction, and expose clean dirt attracting fibers, unless you pick the mitt up off of the paint. How many are willing to do that with every swipe?
Now imagine a soft, fine or coarse, short wool fiber, or short micro fibers. I mention micro fibers because I haven't seen a microfiber mitt yet that has fibers so long that they don't change directions with the natural flow of things, exposing clean fibers to pick up the dirt. Think of these short fibers as you would a soft horse hair brush, or even a tooth brush. The bristles change direction when you move the brush in the opposite direction opening up the inner most part of the bristles. It seems to me that this is how short fibers would react thus allowing dirt to move up and into the wash mitt and away from the paint ASAP. This is the goal to prevent unwanted swirls and scratching.
IMO, good foam mitts, though hard to find otc, can accomplish great results as well. Fine dirt is push up an into the foam fibers where it's trapped usually forever. Thus they'll need replacing often. Again, lots of factors can effect how well foam works.
Combine the right mitt in the right situation along with grit guards and the two bucket method and your paint will stay nice for a long time.
I wish I had some pictures to illustrate what I see in my head. Hopefully I've been able to articulate in wrting my thougts so folks can visualize what I'm talking about.
I guess when I seen Corey's review I thought, "Boy, I hope no one takes his review out of context and tries to use a CarPro, or other long fiber wool mitt on a real dirty car."
IMO (for my own personal use):
For well kept cars long fiber wool mitts are great and should be use on this type of well kept car to be as gentle as possible on the paint.
For slightly dirtier cars (DD)I think shorter wool, cotton chenille, or microfibers work great.
For real dirty cars I like to first blast away the worst of the grunge and grime with water, then move to a sponge mitt, and finally a short fiber mitt.
Why waste and destroy a good mitt on an extremely dirty car?
Customers cars throw another factor into play. I lean more towards using a quality new, or slightly used mitt on certain cars. Bottom line on customers cars...Make absolute certain no marring can take place with whatever mitt you decide to use on the car. New or used mitt, it's your decision, but I'd say err on the side of using extreme caution.
Comments welcome. Rebutal's...go ahead...I won't be able to reply because my fingers are broke. LOL!!!