Ensure a tight bond

[Detail_Dude]

I bet that headline got attention :)

Question
----------

Some products work well together and some don't. I get that. How can one tell, however, if Product A bonded with the paint, then if Product B, layered over Product A, bonded with Product A?

In other words, how does one test bonding in a multi-layered detail job?

Thanks -

[Setec Astronomy]

The conventional wisdom is that a wax will bond to a sealant, but a sealant won't bond to a wax. So you would use a sealant for the base, then top it with a wax. There are some sealants that purport to be usable over a wax, like Opti-Seal.

[Mike Phillips]

How about following the manufacturer's directions and try not to make washing and waxing a car rocket science?

From this article,

Miscible and Immiscible - Wax and Paint Sealant Bonding (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/31186-miscible-immiscible-wax-paint-sealant-bonding.html)


Excerpt...

My good friend, Tom aka Mosca as he's known on detailing discussion forums, once posted,



I've never walked out into a garage only to find out that overnight the wax or paint sealant I applied slipped off the car's paint and piled-up on the floor surrounding the car because it didn't bond or stick to the paint.



I would have to agree with Tom.



:)

[Setec Astronomy]

How is Mosca--is he still posting somewhere?

[Detail_Dude]

How about following the manufacturer's directions and try not to make washing and waxing a car rocket science?

From this article,

Miscible and Immiscible - Wax and Paint Sealant Bonding (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/31186-miscible-immiscible-wax-paint-sealant-bonding.html)


Excerpt...

My good friend, Tom aka Mosca as he's known on detailing discussion forums, once posted,




I would have to agree with Tom.



:)

I just received your signed book, Mike, and am hoping that was not sarcasm ;).

Appreciate the reply, but I asked because I read that certain types of chemicals do not properly adhere to olhers (water-based, polymer, arcrylic, etc.).

[aerogt01]

Mike has also posted in some places about "synergistic chemical compatibility."

In other words, products from a manufacturer are generally designed to work well with their other products.

For example: Many people go through a thorough paint cleaning process before applying OC/OG. However, per the company's own recommendations, if you finish polish with their Finish Polish II then wipe with a damp MF, you are ready to apply OC/OG.

[Mike Phillips]

I just received your signed book, Mike, and am hoping that was not sarcasm ;).


Not sarcasm at all. Having been working on detailing discussion forums since 2002 I've seen your topic come up for years now and a trend that's a part of the "online" car detailing world is to take procedures that are really quite simple and overcomplicate them. I don't have a problem with anyone doing 1-step or 100 steps but often times doing more and more steps doesn't automatically mean better and better results.




Appreciate the reply, but I asked because I read that certain types of chemicals do not properly adhere to olhers (water-based, polymer, arcrylic, etc.).


Yep... been working on forums since vBulletin, (that's the software we're typing in), was introduced and read the same things and now have a couple of very in-depth articles on your topic where all points have been touched upon including my recommendations.

So as you get time, read and digest the above articles and together with the information I've provided PLUS whatever anyone else adds to your thread or you find reading other's opinions on this topic I'm confident you'll get enough information to help you properly choose and use the products that interest you the most to their best application performance.



:)

[Mike Phillips]

How is Mosca--is he still posting somewhere?

Not as much as he use to... I've received a few e-mails from him in this last year so he's still alive and kicking...

He was a frequent poster to Miata.net but I don't visit that forum so I don't know if he's still active and to what extent.

Good guy, always brought common sense to a thread with his posts...


:)

[Detail_Dude]

So as you get time, read and digest the above articles and together with the information I've provided PLUS whatever anyone else adds to your thread or you find reading other's opinions on this topic I'm confident you'll get enough information to help you properly choose and use the products that interest you the most to their best application performance.

:)

Duly noted. Without realizing it, I started to take too much of what I *READ* here as being definitive rather than subjective.

Much appreciated. Hope you have a sun 'shiny' weekend. Yeah, that was lame, but creative.

[Mike Phillips]

Duly noted. Without realizing it, I started to take too much of what I *READ* here as being definitive rather than subjective.


There's lots of passionate opinions about wax, paint sealant and coatings as it relates to these substances bonding to the paint and you're doing the right thing by researching the topic but years ago when my friend Mosca posted what I shared above it kind of drove the point home to me at least that it tends to be a topic that is made into a bigger issue than it needs to be.

Simply follow the manufacturer's directions as they know their products best...





Much appreciated. Hope you have a sun 'shiny' weekend.



We're all hoping it's going to be a sunny and dry weekend around here... plenty of outside projects to do...


Some of this...
:autowash:


Followed by some of this...

:cruisin:

[umi000]

Heh, I've pretty much gotten over the notion of topping one product with another product. I now keep things simple - apply KAIO to remove old wax or sealant and do some paint cleaning, then apply two layers of my chosen LSP, one day apart (to ensure complete coverage). After that, just weekly washes for six weeks - maybe boost on the third or fourth week with a spray wax, if I feel that the beading or slickness has dropped below what I consider acceptable. After those six weeks, repeat (probably with a different LSP, and claying if necessary). I don't see the point of three layers of product A over two layers of product B, plus spraying with product C weekly, then applying product D three weeks later - unless you really just want to try out different products :D.

Of course, and this might seem almost... blasphemous to some people :bat:, I'm not really a fan of all the work entailed to keep my car looking good. I like my car to be nice and shiny, which is why I do go through the effort, but if I could magically wave my hand, and have the car clean and beautiful, I'd be happy to do so (and which is why I'm seriously considering Opti-Coating the whole car and just stick with using OID weekly to impart a slick feel :)).