M86 Cut&Polish with a DA polisher... Yes/No???

[itay]

Hi, anyone tried M86 with a DA polisher (G220/Griot's)?
Anyone can share some light? why do Meguiar's insists it's only for rotary?
Is Flex3401 OK for M86??

Beyond the solo pad system, Any recommendations? LC Orange & White/Grey?

[DaC]

Well... I used it with the LC tangerine HT pad on my GG ROP..... i did just a test spot with it and it hazed a lot the paint, BUT still less than D300 on the MF cutting pad....... the paint I was working on was really really soft.... M205 alone in the crimson pad hazed it also, but a lot less.
So if it hazed less than D300 I would say it's fine for a DA.

[Michael Stoops]

Maybe I can shed a bit of light on this for you. Yes, we developed M86 not only as a rotary only product, but specifically with the whole So1o system in mind - liquid, two wool pads, two foam pads - so that you can go from heavy cut to finishing with a single liquid. It was really geared toward body shop use on fresh paint in response to numerous requests for such a system.

Now, when we say a product is a "rotary only" product that doesn't necessarily mean it will be an utter failure if used any other way. It just means that the product was not only developed for that process, but developed to achieve a very high success rate when used as directed. There are very rare cases where we will tell you flat out "using Product A in the way you're suggesting is ALWAYS a terrible idea". Off hand I can only really think of a very few such cases - Chrome Wheel Cleaner on bare, high polished aluminum wheels or our Clear Coat Safe Rubbing Compound & Polishing Compound on a DA (they're hand use only). Otherwise, we know people are going to experiment, and we're fine with that.

Look at M105; again, developed for rotary only use and primarily for fresh paint, it was quickly accepted as a fantastic way to achieve very fast cut with very little marring on a DA (and dusting complaints were quick to follow - but it wasn't designed for that type of use!).

So, to the original question about M86 on a DA. Since it wasn't developed for use that way, and therefore not tested/developed for a very high success rate that way, your experimentation with it will be just that - experimentation. That said, we've seen many cases where a user got excellent results with it on a DA, fresh paint or not. But as with anything else, M86 is not going to behave exactly the same on all finishes. There may be times when it's a better choice than something else, however. In cases of badly dried out paint where M105 can turn gummy on the surface almost instantly, M86 can be a great alternative. On very delicate paints though it may be overly aggressive. A lot will depend on pad choice, of course, as well as tool selection (true DA or forced rotation) and all the other variables that go into this game.

If you're inclined to give it a go on the DA, we'd suggest using the same pads you would normally use with something like M105 or Ultimate Compound, at least for your initial test spot. So in short, yes, it can be "adapted" for use on a DA, but your results could vary by quite a bit.

[FUNX650]

Thank you, Mr. Stoops, for your excellent, informative post!

:)

Bob

[Kevin Brown]

To add to what Mike said... an old post from MeguiarsOnline:



Finally!

Soon, virtually everyone will be using Meguiar's DA Microfiber Discs, and enjoying their impressive results.
One thing is for sure... these little beauties were run through the ringer during development.
They were used on all sorts of vehicles, with all types of buffing liquids.

In terms of buffing pads, I didn't use much of anything else except prototype Microfiber Discs.

It was a tough gig keeping things hushed for sooo many years!

Doing write-ups was a challenge, too.
We couldn't show prototypes or even let on that something special was in the works.
This required "customization" of some posted pics.

Some examples:

In this shot, RDVT4ME and the other pc were shown working on the now famous Alpine Electronics Imprint RLS:

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/35-replacement-bob_paul-h.jpg

Actually, they weren't using foam pads at all!
http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/Bob-n-Paul-polishing-duo-going-So1o.jpg

Two more shots we I couldn't post:

This was another shot from the write-up:
http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/25-bob-deprat-h.jpg

The real shot:
http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/Bob-going-So1o-at-Alpine.jpg

the other pc polishing a difficult area using the Microfiber Disc:
http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/Paul-edging-with-the-DA-Microfiber-Disc.jpg


Close-up of the new Meguiar's G110 Professional Dual Action Polisher:
http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/l-G110-shot.jpg

And the real shot:
http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/DA-on-boat.jpg

Can't really see it but I was using a Microfiber Disc on the DA:
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/alpine_boat_07_700x525_0287.JPG

Finally, Jason Rose shown using a "prototype compound with a prototype Microfiber Disc.
Also note the disc mounted to the machine sitting behind Paul as he wipes the car.

Meguiar's D/A Microfiber at Alpine Electronics! - YouTube (http://youtu.be/qqxtVEJ8IGQ)

He kept bugging me to, "Try it!" About the 30th time I said, "I will!"
Care to guess the prototype liquid? Note: This was January, 2007.

[Mike Phillips]

If you're inclined to give it a go on the DA, we'd suggest using the same pads you would normally use with something like M105 or Ultimate Compound, at least for your initial test spot.

So in short, yes, it can be "adapted" for use on a DA, but your results could vary by quite a bit.




Excellent advice Mike...

The key to success when using any product whether as directed by the manufacture or if you're freestyling... is to test first.

Make sure the pad, product and process you're thinking of using over the entire vehicle is giving you the results you hope for and dream about before buffing out the entire car.

If the results from the combination you're testing is working then go for it...

If the results from the combination your testing isn't working... then you'll be glad you only worked on a small section of paint...


I've used M86 with a PC and microfiber pads with good luck, (harder factory paints), and less than good luck on softer paints, so always... test first.


:xyxthumbs:

[Mike Phillips]

Wow...

I haven't seen my good friends RDVT4ME and the other pc since leaving SoCal,

Paul aka the other pc and Bob aka RDVT4ME were regulars at all our TNOG's and had attended both the Detailing 101 and 102 classes plus helped out with most if not all of the Extreme Makeovers we did at Meguiar's.

Good memories...


Thanks Kevin!


:dblthumb2:

[Kevin Brown]

Wow...

I haven't seen my good friends RDVT4ME and the other pc since leaving SoCal,

Paul aka the other pc and Bob aka RDVT4ME were regulars at all our TNOG's and had attended both the Detailing 101 and 102 classes plus helped out with most if not all of the Extreme Makeovers we did at Meguiar's.

Good memories...


Thanks Kevin!


:dblthumb2:

Yessir... Bob is a genuinely nice guy.
He worked with our group at SEMA one year, which I enjoyed.

Paul is a machine- he just buffs and buffs and buffs.
I like talking to him about all things mechanical, as he is a very intelligent person.

These are two guys I really enjoy being around. You too, Mike..! :grouphug:

[itay]

Michael, Kevin, Mike,

Thanks for your all of your comments, i will take it into mind.

Of course, i always start with a test section and it always helps me to find new interesting combinations of Polish/Pad.

[itay]

Also, As Mike Suggested and I'm hearing more & more people saying that the new MF Pads are great with the M86 & also with the D151?
Is the D151 actually very similar to the finishing wax used in the MF DA system?

[Kevin Brown]

...
Is the D151 actually very similar to the finishing wax used in the MF DA system?

No, not really, as the D151 was designed to remove mild defects, and the D301 will only remove VERY mild defects (its defect removal capability was originally designed to eliminate ultra fine marring left behind after using D300).

Not to say either one can't be "pushed" to remove more than they were intended..!

Hee-hee-hee....:buffing:

[Michael Stoops]

No, not really, as the D151 was designed to remove mild defects, and the D301 will only remove VERY mild defects (its defect removal capability was originally designed to eliminate ultra fine marring left behind after using D300).

Not to say either one can't be "pushed" to remove more than they were intended..!

Hee-hee-hee....:buffing:
And Kevin is a master of pushing any product to the limit!!

Not only do D151 and D301 differ as per Kevin's comments, but look at the difference in clarity and gloss (I'd give the nod easily to D301 here) and the insanely easy wipe off D301 offers. About the only thing they really share is the logo on the labels. Oh, and Jason Rose's very heavy involvement in the development of both. ;)