To Glaze or Not to Glaze?

[truckbutt]

There is a lot of conflicting information out there about Glazes, and just as many opinions. Some people say that if your prep work is good, you don't need them. Other people like the added depth they give before locking it in with a sealant. Some say that the glaze interferes with sealant bonding while the manufacturers say it doesn't. So, I have two questions:
1. How do you feel about using a Glaze? ( eg. Poorboys Blackhole, Wet Glaze 2.0, or Chemical Guys Acrylic Creme Glaze)
2. Does a Glaze interfere with sealant bonding?

[BobbyG]

Hey Scott,

Glazes do have their place. Glazes really makes the surface shinny and is used after the polishing stage but before the sealant and wax. Glazes contain oils and fine fillers that fill those little imperfections. Once it dries then a coat of sealant or wax should be used as glazes offer no protection at all.

Glazes using to be used by allot of people on the show car circuit. Meguiar's #7 Show Car Glaze is still one of my favorite glazes when I do use them but that's not very often...

[silverfox]

Go with CG Blacklight and be prepared to be shocked. It is a polish, glaze, and sealant (good for 4 months). Its simply an amazing product. It even has mild abrasives in it to use as an AIO. I use it on every single car I touch at this point. Once you have removed major swirls hit it with BLight and watch your jaw drop. Its that good. I even use it under the hood and door jams. Goes on fast. You can do a car in 30 minutes with a DA polisher with black finishing pad on speed 4. Comes off easily. Takes only 15 minutes to cure before wiping off.

[New Image]

So i was wondering...if glaze goes on before sealant and sealant last about 4-6 mos, does that mean the glaze will last as long since it's covered up by the sealant?

[trerc]

Glazes are great for SS paints, these paints often dry out and really benefit from the oils in glazes. As Bobby G said be sure you put a top coat over a glaze for protection.

[Kurt_s]

So i was wondering...if glaze goes on before sealant and sealant last about 4-6 mos, does that mean the glaze will last as long since it's covered up by the sealant?

Some glazes are compatible with sealants and some may not be. Check with the vendor. I almost always used glazes with carnaubas to add gloss, feed the paint (great for SS and does seem to help clearcoat) and now occasionally with some sealants. If the paint is perfectly prepared, the need for glaze is probably minimized with today's paints, sealants and coatings.

I have used CG Glosswerkz without an issue with sealants. Sounds like I should give Blacklight a shot. There are just too many great products to try. I'm going down the coating path, at least with one of my cars, so we'll see. My suggestions it to find something that works well in your hands and stick with it for awhile.



Glazes are great for SS paints, these paints often dry out and really benefit from the oils in glazes. As Bobby G said be sure you put a top coat over a glaze for protection.

#7 is a terrific glaze for SS paints which do dry out. The paint will absorb the glaze's oils and is great for the paint. The paint will need a protective coating like a wax to lock in the oils. The glaze can also hide swirls and scratches. Good stuff to make the paint look awesome but it won't last long without wax. I have not used #7 with a sealant.

I'm going to throw out the concept that some of the prewax cleaners like the Pinnacle and Wolfgang products do some of the same things that a glaze will do. Clean, feed the paint and add gloss. Something to consider too.

Good luck.

[Larry A]

Glazes are great for dark colored paint. They add that extra depth. You can only remove so much of your swirls and marring and then your out of clear coat . It just makes sence to cover with glaze and seal.

[Jimmie]

Exactly what Kurt S said. There are some sealants that can be used with some glazes, but I never cared to remember the exceptions so it was just glazes with nubas for me. The rule of thumb I used was sealant on bare clean paint; glaze to amp up the wet look shine with a nuba.
Interesting question that you ask about what it does to durability. I don't know, but it doesn't seem like it could affect it too much. Guys that use #7 by itself at shows say it lasts less than a day. I know the durability of a nuba over it lasts longer than that. Good question????

[Waxmax]

I typically use a glaze before my LSP whether the LSP be carnauba or sealant. The polymer based ones are my choice: Amigo, EZ Creme (very similar to Blackhole), and Wet Glaze 2.0 are my favorites.

I suspect the glaze affects the LSP durability, but for me it seems minimal.

I also agree that some of the prewax cleaners serve basically the same purpose. For carnauba LSPs, prewax cleaners from Pinnacle, Wolfgang, and P21S are great.

[truckbutt]

Thanks for all the responses. It's a very interesting and confusing topic. Glazes have gotten very complex in composition. Wet Glaze 2.0 has polymers and says that you can use it after your sealant or wax. I did that yesterday. It is very thick and needs to be worked into the finish. It hazes and comes off like a wax. It looks and feels like that as well.

[Waxmax]

Wet Glaze 2.0 is a nice product....easy to use, leaves a wet/slick finish under or on top of LSPs including carnaubas. Contains no cleaners.

[FUNX650]

There is a lot of conflicting information out there about Glazes, and just as many opinions. Some people say that if your prep work is good, you don't need them. Other people like the added depth they give before locking it in with a sealant. Some say that the glaze interferes with sealant bonding while the manufacturers say it doesn't. So, I have two questions:
1. How do you feel about using a Glaze? ( eg. Poorboys Blackhole, Wet Glaze 2.0, or Chemical Guys Acrylic Creme Glaze)
2. Does a Glaze interfere with sealant bonding?

Good questions!

1.) How I feel about using glazes.

To me, glazes are products used for aesthetic purposes. They provide gloss and often the "wet-look", but do not provide much, if any, protection. IMO...Protection comes from using/applying waxes, sealants, coatings to a paint's surfaces.

Glazes are also often used on the show-car circuit; and/or, when one feels they are at 'the limit of correcting' and still want to 'hide' some of the paint's blemishes.

Glazes are usually formulated with very fine micro-abrasives that will help polish/jewel/burnish the paint, but they generally won't remove any paint blemishes. These micro-abrasives, combined with either natural/man-made waxes, (among other ingredients), help "fill-in" some of these paint blemishes without removing them. But these "fill-in" characteristics usually don't last very long.....a good car-washing session or a heavy rain will also help in a glaze's demise.

2.) Sealants Bonding Issues.

We are constantly reminded that sealants will have the 'best bonding' with a paint surface that is totally void of any (polish/wax/oils/etc.) substances, that the paint should be "squeaky clean". That squeaky-cleanliness should also assure the sealant will obtain its best longevity.

It would seem, then, IMO, that glazes would/could interfere with sealants achieving their 'best bonding'. As you have mentioned....Some car care products 'manufacturers' do say otherwise.


Things to ponder:

a.)What are the possibilities of extending the life/usefulness of glazes?

i. A wax will apply over a glaze....a sealant may encounter some problems bonding (cross-linking) to the oils/waxes in a glaze.

ii. I realize that the technologies of glazes/waxes/sealants are being vastly improved at a high rate of speed to meet today's OEM's paint demands...therefore, some 'bonding' issues could be or are being overcome.


b.) If one is to use a glaze, then either apply a pure (without any 'cleaners') carnuba wax....Or,

Use them to help 'polish' the paint. Then use your paint surface cleaner (Erasure, IPA, Mineral Spirits, for example) to ensure the "squeaky-cleanliness" of the paint's surface and then apply your sealant of choice.


Note: The uniqueness of Meg's #7 ingredients is that, even though it's called "Show Car Glaze" it's a true "pure polish" (with no abrasives)....not a glaze. Mr. Phillips has addressed this many times.

The same as Klasse Sealant Glaze....its an acrylic sealant...not a glaze.

As such, remember there are no set-in-stone industry standards on how car care products may be labeled, or as I say, 'mis-labeled'. Mr. Phillips has stated to judge a product on how it performs, not what it says it is on the label.

BTW: I really like Meg's #7 or 3M Imperial Hand Glaze for indoor car shows.

But will these products "work" on modern BC/CC like they do on SS? BC/CC paints are said to be more dense, therefore, I suppose, less porous than SS.

But how this 'more denseness' will affect the absorption rate of the above mentioned products is debatable.

I still like them though.

Just a few of my thoughts on glazes. :)

Bob

[Mike Phillips]

The issue is the term and what the product in the bottle does.

Here's something I wrote on this topic... I've been updating and adding new articles to my article list and here's a portion of it that hold the link I'm referencing, just so any lurkers into the future know where to find it.

How-To Articles (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/23722-articles-mike-phillips.html)


Words mean things... just ask any Lawyer...

Word Definitions - Compounds, Polishes, Glazes, Paint Cleaners and Waxes (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/39020-word-definitions-compounds-polishes-glazes-paint-cleaners-waxes.html)

LSP Ready - Definition (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/39661-lsp-ready-definition.html)

Jewelling - Definition (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/37767-jewelling-definition.html)

LSP - The definition and the story behind the term (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/24073-lsp-definition-story-behind-term.html)

RIDS - The Definition of RIDS and the story behind the term... (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/24045-rids-definition-rids-story-behind-term.html)

TOGW = The Other Guy's Wax (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/21283-togw-other-guy-s-wax.html)

Holiday & Vacation (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/34347-holiday-vacation.html)




Here's an excerpt from the article on compounds, polishes, glazes etc.





Non-Abrasive Glaze or Pure Polish
Historically, the term glaze is used to describe a bodyshop safe, hand-applied liquid used to fill-in and mask fine swirls while creating a deep, wet shine on fresh paint. It's a category of products used on fresh paint in body shop environments, which will not seal the paint surface by depositing a long lasting sacrificial barrier coating using some type of protection ingredients.

A bodyshop safe glaze is used in place of a wax, sealant or coating because it won't interfere with the normal out-gassing process of fresh paint for the first 30 days of curing. The function of a bodyshop glaze is to hide rotary buffer swirls while giving the paint a uniform, just waxed appearance to ensure customer satisfaction. After 30 days cure time its normal to the seal the paint using a wax, paint sealant or coating.





Hiding Swirls
There's a number of reasons why historically body shops use a glaze on fresh paint to hide swirls. Most body shops are production oriented and perform a limited number of machine buffing steps due to time restrictions and profitability. This would include machine compounding with a wool pad and machine polishing with either a wool finishing pad or a foam polishing or finishing pad, both steps using rotary buffers.

The end results are normally excellent shine but with rotary buffer swirls in the paint, (also called holograms and/or rotary buffer trails), that can be seen in bright light. The glaze is normally hand-applied to fill-in and hide the swirls as hand application is fast and relatively effective as long as the swirls are shallow. This glazing procedure produces a finish that customers will accept at the time of vehicle pick-up. The results are somewhat misleading however because bodyshop glazes are water soluble and as such will wash off after a few car washes or repeated exposure to rainy weather and then the swirls will become visible. This is the standard and accepted practice in the body shop industry.


Note: Because there are no rules or regulations governing the definition or the use of the word glaze, manufactures and sellers of paint care products use the word glaze as a name for all types of products that are not true glazes in the historical sense of the word. Most common is the use of the word glaze in the name of a car wax or paint sealant.






Here's another excerpt from down the article a ways...




Bodyshop Safe
Products that are bodyshop safe mean they contain no ingredients that could contaminant a fresh paint environment by introducing substances that would cause surface adhesion problems on body panels to be sprayed with fresh paint.

Any ingredient or substance that will cause surface tension will cause surface adhesion problems, the most common problem talked about is Fish Eyes, which is where some type of contaminant on a body panel prevents paint from bonding to the paint where the contaminant is and instead forces the paint to pile-up around the contaminant causing what looks like a round, bulbous looking fish eye.

A simple example would be any product that causes water to bead-up on the surface, (causes surface tension), would cause adhesion problems or Fish Eyes.


Bodyshop Safe is also a term used interchangeably with the term, fresh paint safe. That is, a fresh paint safe product is any product that can safely be applied to fresh paint, (less than 30 days old from time of spraying), without sealing the surface and thus interfering with any outgassing process.

Bodyshop safe products tend to be water soluble as anything that is water insoluble tends to include ingredients that can potentially form a barrier coating that seals paint.

Car waxes, paint sealants and coatings are not by definition, bodyshop safe for recommended for fresh paint before 30 days cure time. Some people will argue this point because most modern clearcoat paints are chemically cured via catalyzation. While this is probably true, it's always best to follow the paint manufactures recommendation as they know their products best and to my knowledge there is not a single paint manufacture that has an official statement where they recommend sealing their paint systems before 30 days have passed.

The 30 day waiting period comes from the age of solvent-evaporation paints, where the paints would dry and cure as the solvents used to make the paint thin so it can be sprayed out of a spray gun needed time to fully evaporate out of the paint. Modern, catalyzed paints cure due to a chemical reaction somewhat akin to mixing together a two-part epoxy where the epoxy dries and hardens chemically, not via exposure to the air.

The 30 day waiting time for catalyzed paint is for the most part just carry-over form of an insurance policy to help Bubba-Proof the re-finishing industry by allowing at least 30 days to pass before the vehicle owner applies anything to the surface that could potentially have a negative effect on fresh paint.



Outgassing
The process in which solvents and other additives which are mixed into automotive paints before spraying work their way out of the paint, (after spraying), to the surface where they can evaporate.



When trying to figure out what a product is, go by what the product does, not the name on the label.


:)

[FUNX650]

The issue is the term and what the product in the bottle does.

Thanks for this clarification :)....
When I said in my above post: "Mr. Phillips has stated to judge a product on how it performs, not what it says it is on the label."....I should have said I was "paraphrasing" you.

Here's something I wrote on this topic... I've been updating and adding new articles to my article list and here's a portion of it that hold the link I'm referencing, just so any lurkers into the future know where to find it.

I should list these links to your articles...they're a must for my references, also.

How-To Articles (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/23722-articles-mike-phillips.html)

Words mean things...

As always, your words are very meaningful. :) Thanks!

Bob

[truckbutt]

When trying to figure out what a product is, go by what the product does, not the name on the label.


:)
Key point. Thanks Mike.