First Makita Cut/Polish this weekend... Roof Technique??

[courtdale]

Noob alert - jumping into the Rotary Cut and Polish world this weekend. I've done my homework and filled my shopping list. I think I'm ready, but I am definitely scared.

I've answered most of my own questions over the past few weeks with a lot of research, reading and viewing, but one thing I've anticipated and not seen anything on is how to hit the roof. After realizing the difficulty involved in washing alone, I couldn't understand how people effectively use rotaries up there.

The paint in question is in need of serious work. It was obviously not cared for properly and has every flaw imaginable short of oxidation. Was set on a PC DA simply out of fear, but came across a sweet deal on a Makita locally used ($70). I'll be using the 9227 with 3 stages of 8.5" LCountry Pads. Here's my breakdown:

Car: 2001 BMW 325i (Black)

1st: Wash/Dry - Meg's Car Wash, MF Towels, Cham, Blower (dry)
2nd Clay - Mother's Kit
3rd Tape Trim - 3m Blue Tape
4th Cut - LC Yellow Heavy Cut CCS pad with Megs 105 Compound
5th Cut/Polish - LC Green Cut/Polish pad with Menz. Power Finish
6th Final Polish - LC Gray Polish pad with Menz. 85RD
7th Seal - LC Gray Polish pad with Blackfire Wet Diamond
8th Wax - T.Wax "Black Box" Carnuba (don't shoot me, it came with the car - was planning on Collinite 915 here, but figured I have the black wax, may as well use it for the learning run)

Also plan on hitting the rubber trim with a heat gun if I can sneak off to Lowes without the wife catching me.

The only thing I don't have that I wish I did is a paint thickness tool. I decided to go with the heavy cut pad and compound due to the amount of correction needed, and I'm guessing there is a nice amount of clear coat to work with as this care, as stated, does NOT look like it was cared for, let alone hit with a rotary.

Hoping to bang this out tomorrow with hopefully a little residual hurricane cloud cover as the high is supposed to reach 96. LOVE these Florida summers.

Feel free to critique away, like I said, I'm going into this with a screw it, lets do it attitude, but at the same time I am worried about the consequences of messing this one up.

[master detailer]

run it at 2 or 3 till you get the hang of it and let the buffer do the work. Dont push down on it and spray water on it when it starts looking a little dry.you will love how it works better then a da and how much faster its done.

[RaskyR1]

It sounds like this car belongs to a paying customer and to be honest you should not be working on a clients car with any polisher, let alone a rotary without some experience. You should be learning how to use the tool on a scrap panel or a beater car long before taking on paying jobs. If this BMW is "Jet Black" you are in for a treat too.

I don't mean to come off as harsh and I hope you don't take it that way, I'm just being honest. 8.5" pads are nice for large trucks and vans, but on a small car like that you will want smaller pads.

Working on the roof is one of the easier panels since it's relatively flat, it's the fenders and quarter panels that require the most skill. ;)

Not sure how tall you are but a car that size should be no problem. On SUV's and vans I use a work platform which can be found a Lowes Or Home Depot.

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/400/55/55213f4a-cd33-4e18-bc3d-9c890abf67e3_400.jpg

[Mike Phillips]

Not sure how tall you are but a car that size should be no problem. On SUV's and vans I use a work platform which can be found a Lowe's Or Home Depot.

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/400/55/55213f4a-cd33-4e18-bc3d-9c890abf67e3_400.jpg



Ha ha...

When I first started reading this thread and before I scrolled down the first thing that popped into my mind was the above folding aluminum work platform.

I love these things for my boat and my truck because they are strong and STABLE.

For the BMW you probably don't need anything that will elevate you as high as the above platform will but you do need to be able to see what you're doing and also be able to move your arms unencumbered.

If you end up sanding on something, make sure it won't slide out from under you when holding a running buffer. I've used the rubber floor mats out of my truck placed on the concrete garage floor and then placed whatever it was I was going to stand on on top of the rubber floor mats and this has kept the thing I'm standing on from sliding out from under me.

When using a rotary buffer you're going t use your legs to support your upper body and you move this tool over a panel so it's important that you can stand is a way that's safe.


:xyxthumbs:

[Mike Phillips]

Also, recently a forum member asked some questions about using a rotary buffer and myself and other seasoned detailers chimed in here,

Experience needed for circular buffers? (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/circular-polishers-rotary-polishers-high-speed-polisher/40079-experience-needed-circular-buffer.html)


Plus there's links to even more how-to threads on the topic of using a rotary buffer, so maybe check them out also.


:)

[Mike Phillips]

I've answered most of my own questions over the past few weeks with a lot of research, reading and viewing, but one thing I've anticipated and not seen anything on is how to hit the roof. After realizing the difficulty involved in washing alone, I couldn't understand how people effectively use rotaries up there.




Kind of related...


Knock out painted roofs first, then tackle the rest of the car... (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/29746-knock-out-painted-roofs-first-then-tackle-rest-car.html)



:)

[courtdale]

It sounds like this car belongs to a paying customer and to be honest you should not be working on a clients car with any polisher, let alone a rotary without some experience. You should be learning how to use the tool on a scrap panel or a beater car long before taking on paying jobs. If this BMW is "Jet Black" you are in for a treat too.



Nope, it's my car. I'm no where near having the guts to try this on my wife's car yet, let alone someone that would pay. And yes, it's Jet Black, I hope you meant "treat" in a good way and not something that's going to be a major headache?

Thanks for the step stool recommendation, looks like exactly what I'll need.

I also noticed the need for smaller sized pads, especially for the tighter areas, but I didn't have the plate and figured it would be something I could address next time around if the 8'5's proved to be a problem.

[RaskyR1]

Nope, it's my car. I'm no where near having the guts to try this on my wife's car yet, let alone someone that would pay. And yes, it's Jet Black, I hope you meant "treat" in a good way and not something that's going to be a major headache?

Thanks for the step stool recommendation, looks like exactly what I'll need.

I also noticed the need for smaller sized pads, especially for the tighter areas, but I didn't have the plate and figured it would be something I could address next time around if the 8'5's proved to be a problem.

If it's your car then I think you will be fine. ;)

Start out by polishing the flat section of the panels first (hood, trunk, roof, doors) just to get a feel for the machine. As others have noted above start out with lower rpm's in the 900-1200 range (I rarely need more than 1500).

When starting off with a rotary for the first time I usually suggest using a wool polishing pad along with an oily polish. The wool generates far less heat and when combined with an oily polish it will be more fluid and you won't get as much pad hop as you would with a compound and foam cutting pad. The initial cutting is the hardest and most time consuming step. The proceeding steps will be noticeably easier and you will likely find the polisher easier to control too.

Jet black tends to be on the softer side and can be difficult for even the seasoned detailer to finish down on. It also tends to marr easily too. I would actually start out with something more mild and see what kind of results you get first before getting too aggressive. You'll definitely want to invest in smaller pads...you'll find it will be difficult to keep the pad flat in tight areas with such a large pad, which usually results in holograms.

Some tips:

Tap off the adjacent panels (see pic) and never buff into an edge with the buffer when doing heavy correction.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4080/4878065836_866537e22a_b.jpg

Also watch out for sharp panel body lines as a rotary can cut through them pretty fast...try to buff up to the bends for the most part and don't lay on top of them for too long. When doing heavy correction I will usually tape the edges off for that step and then remove it for the proceeding polishing steps.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i288/Raskyr1/1999%20BMW%20M3/IMG_2989.jpg


Tape off all moldings and trim too...which you seemed to know already. ;)
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i288/Raskyr1/1999%20BMW%20M3/IMG_2990.jpg


Hope this helps! Be sure to take pics!



Rasky

[courtdale]

Wow, thanks for the tips. What is recommended for the tighter areas since I don't have the smaller pads for this run? For areas 6" and under, should I try to get at them with a portion of the 8.5 pad, or just let them be? Also, it may matter that I'm using the hard backing plate, not the flexible.

[courtdale]

Apologies for not including this in the OP, but another question - How much is it frowned upon to stretch a full cut polish run into a 2 or even 3 day project?? I know air contaminents are an issue. Is there an acceptable break point where you could divide the process with a minimum of contamination, or as a noob am I totally sweating a minor detail as my inexperience will certainly overshadow any negatives that not banging this out in one day would create??

[Jimmie]

I agree with the guys that recommend a platform. I give the circular the ultimate respect working head high. In fact rarely do it. Another consideration for much respect is keeping the cord clear. They can wrap a cord up before you know what happened.

[opie_7afe]

remember do a test spot! so then you can figure out what steps will work for a correction, and as mike phillips says, "start out with the least aggressive pad/product first". good luck to you and wish you the best....don't let the buffer control you, control the buffer

[Bimmerfan]

Rotary's much, much bettter than DA buffer and I do not like anything bigger than 6" pads. For heavier cut I prefer wool with 105 over foam and 205 for finishing

[courtdale]

Well, 3/4 of the way done with the cut. Driver's side is what I have left. Observations so far:

- Do not do this on the hottest day of the year, supposed to hit 97 today and I've soaked through 3 shirts already. The M105 is drying up too quickly and I'm having to mist every 15 seconds. Obviously not a good thing.

- I used the heavy cut foam (LC yellow) and m105 for the first run. I know many said to start lesser, but I wanted to get a feel for all products and range, so I went big. Unfortunately, I think I'm being too much of a girl with my technique and I'm probably not getting max effectiveness out of the abrasives. I haven't gone past the 3rd speed setting and have done most of the car with the first 2 (600-1000 or so).

- Lighting is poor, so its hard to tell how well I am doing. I'm in the garage with the door open, with a black car, details are hard to see. It does look like most of the low end imperfections are coming out, and the shine is popping more, but the larger scratches don't seem to be budging. Hoping to make more progress with them in the medium cut/polish.

- My prediction of the roof being difficult held true. I couldn't manage the MAkita at all in those hard to reach areas. Certainly couldn't go past 600rpm and was getting a lot of pad hop. Lower side panels also seem to be a #####.

- ANd as advised, yes, other than the hood 8.5"s don't seem very practical for this job. Hell, I don't even know how some of you get into those smaller places (rear/license plate areas etc) with 5-6" pads. Doing my best, but I think I'm going to be missing quite a few spots when I'm done due to size.

Kind of torn right now. Not sure if I should finish the whole run with the large pads, or stop after the heavy cut, order smaller plates and pads and wait on the medium cut and final polish.

[courtdale]

Cut is done. Not sure whether to be pleased or depressed. I spent 7 hrs on it today, and it's hazy with most scratches still there. I'm trying to stay positive as I know its supposed to be hazy, but I really thought there's be a more noticeable difference in the scratches from what I've seen online. Maybe I was just too conservative with the cut... time, pressure etc.

Hopefully the MEnzerma Power Cut with the LC Green will make up some ground tomorrow morning. With a little more feel for the technique, I'm hoping for the better.