Is more better? Paint Condition Categories?

[Mike Phillips]

Is more better? Paint Condition Categories? (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/off-topic/38548-more-better-paint-condition-categories.html)


Here's two lists of categories to describe the condition of a car's finish. The first one is pretty basic and the second one has a few extra categories because there are cars that have paint where the condition is very specific to what's wrong and how it was caused.


Group 1
Severely Neglected
Mildly Neglected
Good Condition
Excellent Condition
Show Car Quality


Group 2
Extreme Oxidation
Extreme Orange Peel
Extreme Swirls
Severely Neglected
Mildly Neglected
Good Condition
Excellent Condition
Show Car Quality


Or the Extreme Oxidation, Orange Peel and Swirls categories could just be sub-categories under the Severely Neglected category.


Any comments?


:)

[Dr Oldz]

I like group one with the sub-categories. But I think Severe Orange Peel should in Cat 1 because of it's special method to fix(wet sanding).

Perhaps an Unrepairable Cat also?

[Mike Phillips]

Perhaps an Unrepairable Cat also?



Great idea, can't believe I left it off the list... the way I normally describe this category on the forum is,

Past the point of no return

So like this,

Group 1

Past the point of no return
Severely Neglected

Extreme Oxidation
Extreme Orange Peel
Extreme Swirls

Mildly Neglected
Good Condition
Excellent Condition
Show Car Quality


:xyxthumbs:

[Elite Pro]

Group 1

Past the point of no return
Severely Neglected

Extreme Oxidation
Extreme Orange Peel
Extreme Swirls

Mildly Neglected
Good Condition
Excellent Condition
Show Car Quality



I don't know about 'Extreme Orange Peel' as a sub-cat in 'Severely Neglected.' Then again, I guess it could be neglected being that no one has done anything about it...

:props:

[kronos]

I don't know about 'Extreme Orange Peel' as a sub-cat in 'Severely Neglected.' Then again, I guess it could be neglected being that no one has done anything about it...

:props:

:iagree: My gut tells me "Extreme Orange Peel" should not be a sub-category. Then again I am hungry.

[C. Charles Hahn]

That's a good format (categories with sub-categories).

Under the "Past the point of no return" category you might even be able to break things down a bit with regard to the reason they became that way -- owner neglect, use of improper repair procedures by the paint correction technician, etc.

[Mike Phillips]

Here's a listing that should cover just about any car...


Show Car Quality
Paint in this condition is as perfect as it can be in any lighting condition. The only defects you should see are fingerprints, smudges or light dust on what otherwise appears to be a flawless show car finish.

The finish on a car in this category can hold up to close scrutiny under bright lights by the most discerning eyes.

The paint in this category has been put through a series of machine polishing procedures to maximize D.O.I, gloss, clarity, depth, reflection, richness of color, shine and even slickness.

If needed, the paint has been sanded, cut and buffed to remove orange peel and any other surface texture to create a 100% flat surface to maximize D.O.I.

RIDS have been removed to the extent that it is safe to do so without compromising the top coat. Paint is meticulously cared for on an as needed basis to ensure that it is always display ready.



Excellent Condition
The paint in this category looks factory new or better than factory new.

The paint looks like it has been professionally machine polished and sealed with a wax, paint sealant or coating and is regularly maintained.

When viewed in bright sunlight, the paint looks excellent, that is there are few or no visible swirls or scratches or so few that there's not enough of them to require machine polishing.

The paint has few or no swirls, scratches or any other visible paint defects outside of RIDS.



Good Condition
Light swirls, scratches, water spots and oxidation.

When viewed in bright sunlight, the paint should look pretty good overall except that it has light or shallow looking cobweb swirls and scratches throughout the paint. Any water spot problems should be shallow imprint type stains common to Type I Water Spots, certainly not deep craters like Type II or Type III where the paint is physically stained.

Paint in this condition would require one or two polishing steps before a finishing wax could be applied to bring the quality to Excellent or Show Car Quality.



Mildly Neglected
Normal day-in, day-out wear-n-tear and minimal appearance maintenance outside of the occasional car wash. Paint in this condition has medium to light swirls, scratches, water spots and oxidation.


Cobweb Swirls and Scratches
When viewed in bright, overhead sunlight there are cobweb swirls and scratches evenly instilled throughout the entire finish but they're likely instilled through improper washing and drying techniques, which means the depth of these defects won't be as deep as the swirls and scratches in a severely neglected finish. The swirls are not inflicted by a rotary buffer. The remedy is still the same except you might be able to use a less aggressive pad or product.

Water Spots
Paint with Type I Water Spots or shallow Type II Water Spots that are more imprints than they are craters falls into this category.

Oxidation, Staining and Surface Impurities
If the car being evaluated is a daily driver, is parked outside 24/7 and has not been regularly polished and/or waxed for a few years then chances are good it has light oxidation and staining of the paint with some type of roadgrime or a build-up of impurities or some type of topical contamination that does not wash or wipe-off.



Severely Neglected
Paint in this condition has deep swirls, scratches, water spots and oxidation. Paint in this condition has normal day-in, day-out wear-n-tear plus no real regular maintenance. Vehicles in this category are rarely washed on a regular basis and when they are washed they are washed improperly or taken through automatic car wash.



Cobweb Swirls and Scratches
Paint that is severely neglected means that when viewed in bright, overhead sunlight, there are so many swirls and scratches that the paint has an overall hazy appearance which blocks your view of the true color.


Water Spots
Paint that is in the severely neglected category can have Type I, Type II and Type III water spots on all horizontal panels and even the vertical panels if caused by a sprinkler or some type of water spray.


Severe Oxidation
Paint in this category has oxidized to the point where the surface has a uniform dull appearance to the horizontal surfaces and to some extent the vertical panels. Clear coats do oxidize but usually slower than single stage paints and don't normally get the whitish, chalky appearance with a rough texture common to old, neglected single stage lacquers and enamels.



Rotary Buffer Swirls
This category is primarily for cars that have been improperly buffed-out using a rotary buffer leaving the finish inflicted with rotary buffer swirls, holograms or buffer trails. (Whatever term you like, they all mean the same thing).

The severity of the swirls can range from shallow to deep depending upon the pad and product used with the rotary buffer as well as technique or lack thereof.

The normal three culprits for paint in this condition are,

DISO = Dealer Installed Swirl Option
BISO = Bodyshop Installed Swirl Option
HISO - Hack Detailer Installed Swirl Option



Extreme Oxidation
Paint is this category is primarily associated with traditional single stage lacquer and enamel paints and normally found cars built before 1980. Extreme Oxidation means the paint has deteriorated to the point that it has a chalky, whitish appearance.

Paint in this category is typically antique or original. It can be a re-paint, but it would be an older re-repaint. Paint with extreme oxidation can be saved by carefully removing the dead, oxidized paint and rejuvenating with polishing oils the remaining paint. After polishing the color is restored and remains even when exposed to sunlight. If the color fades away then this is an indicator that the paint has become unstable.



Extreme Orange Peel
Paint in this category is primarily re-paints from body shops, dealerships or do-it-yourselfer garage paint jobs. It doesn't normally include factory orange peel because factory orange peel is a given for new cars and truck and due to how thin the top coat is on a factory paint job there's a certain amount of risk you have to accept if you choose to remove the factory orange peel while re-paints will tend to have enough material that the problem can be safely corrected via sanding and buffing.



Unstable
This category is for older, single stage paints that have been exposed to the sun for a long enough period of time that the pigments have become unstable. That is even if you remove the oxidation and gorge the paint with some type of polishing oils, any original color that is restored is only a temporary fix and when the paint is exposed to the sun or after a few days pass the color fades back to where it was before you started.



Clear Coat Failure
Clear coat failure is the point in which the top clear layer of paint has either de-laminated from the basecoat and is peeling off. Clear coat failure can also be when the clear layer of paint has deteriorated to the point where it's turning a whitish color in the beginning stages to full blown deterioration where it has turned white and is flaking off and the car look like it has a severe rash.




Past the point of no return
Paint in this condition will be a paint job that falls into one of the above categories but it is so far gone that nothing you pour out of a bottle or scoop out of a can from any company will fix it.




:)

[Tyrod]

Unique to Florida is the Luv Bug thing. Soon I'm gonna be dealing with a 1998 car that has never had anything more than a hosing off or run thru a car wash more than 3 or 4 times in it's life. The finish isn't oxdized, nor has it swirls. Lots of bug damage, road debris, environmental scratches and I'd image a lot of imbedded iron particles. The sun has leached the color out of the bumpers.

Although you can't really see in the pic, the hood is as bad as bumber. Whereas, the bumper damage is severly pitted with bug damage, the hood appears as if some of the bug debris may still come out.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=267&pictureid=1642

[CrownKote]

Wow! this is some great information Mike! I may be referring to these catagorys for my customers and for my walk around!

Thank you for the time and effort you have put into this!!!!

[02nissanISR]

we could take this one step further and it might take some doing but a photo example of each condition for reference. Though many are fairly straight forward some who are less experienced may have trouble identifying some paint conditions accurately without a visual point of reference. It might keep a novice detailer from going after something he/she has no chance of repairing and from maybe causing more damage.

just a thought :-)

[Mike Phillips]

but a photo example of each condition for reference.




Have a few pictures for each category, just didn't post them yet. This article is still fluid and open to changes. It's for a series of e-books I'm working on where I'm going to need defined categories for others to use as reference guides.

My natural instincts were to write the categories as last posted because each category defines a certain condition of paint finish.

My adopted instincts push me towards fewer categories for the non-online enthusiasts that don't tend to get as deep or D.O. as online detailing enthusiasts.

I like the expanded categories so far though... a place for everything and everything has a place.


:)

[Mike Phillips]

***Bump***

Anyone have any suggestions about the catagories?

I think I have the orange peel picture...


Extreme Orange Peel
Paint in this category is primarily re-paints from body shops, dealerships or do-it-yourselfer garage paint jobs. It doesn't normally include factory orange peel because factory orange peel is a given for new cars and truck and due to how thin the top coat is on a factory paint job there's a certain amount of risk you have to accept if you choose to remove the factory orange peel while re-paints will tend to have enough material that the problem can be safely corrected via sanding and buffing.



Detailing 102 - Wetsanding, Cutting and Buffing for a Show Car Finish (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/sign-up-sunday-detailing-102-advanced-class/36021-sign-up-machine-dampsanding-using-rotary-buffers-show-car-finish-july-10th.html)



http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1206/1971GTODampSand002.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1206/1971GTODampSand003.jpg


Extreme Orange Peel
(It's gone now)
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1206/1971GTODampSand004.jpg


:buffing: