What Is This? - Claying Related

[Marc08EX]

I've probably encountered this 3 times already and it's driving me nuts... Before I clay the car, I don't see any visual embedded contaminants but I can definitely feel them in the paint. So I start to clay the car and spots like these instantly show up!!!

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/medium/IMG_6963.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/medium/IMG_6962.JPG

Please remember I don't see these things before I clay the car... It only shows up after I do a first claying pass...

It makes my clay look like this:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-dO5Sbr-paCU/Tga0Xick0WI/AAAAAAAAAxU/FVp8ytB3UdQ/IMG_6961.JPG

Do you guys know what this is and why does it only show up after the first claying pass? I can get rid of them but it requires multiple passes.

Thanks!

[rakkvet]

I wonder if it is some sort of tree sap or sticky bird droppings. I've seen it before but I can't remember specifically what it was. Maybe even animal urine. Sounds like the clay is doing the job though.

[oldmodman]

It looks very similar to what I had on my yellow car right after delivery.
It was rail dust. Or very miniscule particles of iron that had settled on the paint and started to corrode their way into the clearcoat.
This was eight years ago so the only removal method was claying. Today I would try Iron-X first.
If you would like I can send you a small (one ounce) sample to try. If you liberally blot it on the worst of the red marks and it turns purple then they are iron particles and claying will only "scrape" off the part above the surface of the clear.

Here is a great bunch of examples showing what the purple Iron-X results look like.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/car-care-product-giveaways/36166-best-bleeding-car-contest-iron-x.html

[A4 1.8tqm]

So you can feel the spots before you clay, but they are clear. Then when you clay, they become visible. Is this correct?

I agree with rakkvet in that it is probably a sticky sap or even cat spray or something. When you go over it, it gets the spots dirty so they show up. At least it comes off with some more claying though!

[Marc08EX]

I wonder if it is some sort of tree sap or sticky bird droppings. I've seen it before but I can't remember specifically what it was. Maybe even animal urine. Sounds like the clay is doing the job though.

I don't know what tree sap looks like lol! I thought they were clear and sticky residue that you can visually see on top of the paint? I wish I can narrow it down to what it is. The clay was definitely working as it was improving the paint and most of the contamination is gone... However, it takes multiple passes (forever), a lot of pressure and it deteriorates my clay sooooo fast...


It looks very similar to what I had on my yellow car right after delivery.
It was rail dust. Or very miniscule particles of iron that had settled on the paint and started to corrode their way into the clearcoat.
This was eight years ago so the only removal method was claying. Today I would try Iron-X first.
If you would like I can send you a small (one ounce) sample to try. If you liberally blot it on the worst of the red marks and it turns purple then they are iron particles and claying will only "scrape" off the part above the surface of the clear.

Here is a great bunch of examples showing what the purple Iron-X results look like.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/car-care-product-giveaways/36166-best-bleeding-car-contest-iron-x.html

I think that rail dust makes a lot of sense because of the color. But what really surprises me is why can't I see it right away? Why do I only see it after the first claying pass? I guess IronX would really determine whether or not this is rail dust. I would love to try this out! I'll send you a PM. Thank you very much for the generous offer!


So you can feel the spots before you clay, but they are clear. Then when you clay, they become visible. Is this correct?

I agree with rakkvet in that it is probably a sticky sap or even cat spray or something. When you go over it, it gets the spots dirty so they show up. At least it comes off with some more claying though!

Hi A4, I don't know if what I'm feeling is because of this. I just feel that the paint is rough like sand paper and it needs claying. I never expected these things to show up. Man if that's the case then that's just gross. Hahaha! I wish we can determine what it really is.

[Ted S.]

The clay looked like it was super nasty. Perhaps something sticky on the paint is grabbing some of that brown filth off of the clay and becoming apparent. You may try claying again, or try and wash it with dawn or something else fairly mild.

[Marc08EX]

The clay looked like it was super nasty. Perhaps something sticky on the paint is grabbing some of that brown filth off of the clay and becoming apparent. You may try claying again, or try and wash it with dawn or something else fairly mild.

The clay is clean or has been folded to show a clean surface before claying the car. Once I make a pass on the paint then the little brown specks show up and my clay turns to that nasty brown one.

[embolism]

is it on every panel or specific ones only?

Once you see it on a panel, try spritzing with an APC/degreaser like zep citrus at 4:1, let it dwell for 30s, then wash with a heavy solution of Dawn. If it comes off it is likely organic. At the very least it will help save your clay...

[Mike Phillips]

Where do you park your car?

What's on the paint is a result of what's in the air around your car...


I like Tim aka embolism's advice... see if you can clean the gunk off the car by safely dissolving it instead of contaminating you clay.

If his suggestions don't work, maybe dry wiping with Mineral Spirits or diluted IPA and see if that works, try to use a white cloth to wipe with.

:)

[BobbyG]

Marc,


Was this on certain sections or all over the car?
Horizontal surfaces only?
Did you wash it thoroughly prior to claying?
Were are you parking the car?

If you can feel something it might just be tree sap. If your paint is dirty then you could possibly be dragging dirt deposited on the paint and leaving it in the sap. Continuing may cause smearing like you've shown.

If you have another section not already clayed; clean the affected with Mineral Spirits. If this is tree sap then Mineral Spirits or Turpentine will dissolve it. Once you've finished, wash the area an Isopropyl Alcohol and water solution and inspect.

Break out a clean bar of clay and suitable lubricant and test the area again.

[Marc08EX]

is it on every panel or specific ones only?

Once you see it on a panel, try spritzing with an APC/degreaser like zep citrus at 4:1, let it dwell for 30s, then wash with a heavy solution of Dawn. If it comes off it is likely organic. At the very least it will help save your clay...

It's mostly on the horizontal panels like the hood, roof, trunk... It's also prominent at the rear end of the vehicle.

There were very stubborn contaminants at the paint in between the taillights (trunk area) that I didn't get to remove. I polished it with M105 and a LC orange pad and they went away... I think the compound along with the cutting pad is abrading the stubborn stains out.

I'll try using APC next time I encounter this.


Where do you park your car?

What's on the paint is a result of what's in the air around your car...


I like Tim aka embolism's advice... see if you can clean the gunk off the car by safely dissolving it instead of contaminating you clay.

If his suggestions don't work, maybe dry wiping with Mineral Spirits or diluted IPA and see if that works, try to use a white cloth to wipe with.

:)

Hi Mike, the yellow mustang client had the car sitting out the hot Arizona sun for a year and I think he also mentioned that it was under a tree. Our Altima which was bought from California was also sitting outside and never garaged. Both these cars had the said contaminants in the paint. The mustang was worse though.

I mentioned in my reply to Tim that I encountered some very stubborn stains and it was just taking too much effort so I left it alone... The compounding step with M105 and LC orange pads took them out on the mustang... I'll try Tim's solution on the Altima as I have never polished it yet.

[Marc08EX]

Marc,


Was this on certain sections or all over the car?
Horizontal surfaces only?
Did you wash it thoroughly prior to claying?
Were are you parking the car?

If you can feel something it might just be tree sap. If your paint is dirty then you could possibly be dragging dirt deposited on the paint and leaving it in the sap. Continuing may cause smearing like you've shown.

If you have another section not already clayed; clean the affected with Mineral Spirits. If this is tree sap then Mineral Spirits or Turpentine will dissolve it. Once you've finished, wash the area an Isopropyl Alcohol and water solution and inspect.

Break out a clean bar of clay and suitable lubricant and test the area again.

Hey Bobby! How's it going? Thanks for the response.

The contamination is mostly on the horizontal panels like the hood, roof, trunk... It's also prominent at the rear end of the vehicle. I washed the car thoroughly with CG citrus wash and gloss. The yellow mustang client had the car sitting out the hot Arizona sun for a year and I think he also mentioned that it was under a tree. Our Altima which was bought from California was also sitting outside and never garaged.

I thought that tree sap was a clear and sticky substance that looks like dried liquid sitting on top of the paint surface? This didn't look like it had anything on top of the paint. It only shows up when the clay makes the first pass. It's like the dirt is being revealed if you will.

I've never heard of mineral spirits except for using it to clean and seal wetsanded headlights. How does this work and what brand should I buy? Where can I normally get it and do I need to dilute it down? I'll definitely give this a shot next time around.

Thanks again!

[BobbyG]

Hey Bobby! How's it going? Thanks for the response.

The contamination is mostly on the horizontal panels like the hood, roof, trunk... It's also prominent at the rear end of the vehicle. I washed the car thoroughly with CG citrus wash and gloss. The yellow mustang client had the car sitting out the hot Arizona sun for a year and I think he also mentioned that it was under a tree. Our Altima which was bought from California was also sitting outside and never garaged.

I thought that tree sap was a clear and sticky substance that looks like dried liquid sitting on top of the paint surface? This didn't look like it had anything on top of the paint. It only shows up when the clay makes the first pass. It's like the dirt is being revealed if you will.

I've never heard of mineral spirits except for using it to clean and seal wetsanded headlights. How does this work and what brand should I buy? Where can I normally get it and do I need to dilute it down? I'll definitely give this a shot next time around.

Thanks again!

No problem, always trying to help!

Tree sap is generally sticky and you should be able to feel it by running your hand over the surface. Depending on how warm it is and how long it's been on there might make it feel different but you should be able to feel something.

I've never had a panel start bleeding contamination when claying. I was also wondering what you were using for clay lubricant that could have possible softened what ever was stuck to the paint.

Mineral Spirits is sold at WalMart, Lowe's Home Depot and just about any hardware store. A generic brand will do as your only using it as a wash. Use it straight in a cotton towel or a Microfiber will work too.

DuPont also makes a body wash brand name Prep-Sol 3919s which is manufactured for use in body and paint shops. I used this for years and it's a great product to have around.

Marine Supplies Store, Marine supply, Boating supply, Equipment (http://www.merrittsupply.com/DuPont-Prep-Sol-3919S-Cleaning-Solvent-Gallon-PN-3919S-P3428.aspx)

[Marc08EX]

No problem, always trying to help!

Tree sap is generally sticky and you should be able to feel it by running your hand over the surface. Depending on how warm it is and how long it's been on there might make it feel different but you should be able to feel something.

I've never had a panel start bleeding contamination when claying. I was also wondering what you were using for clay lubricant that could have possible softened what ever was stuck to the paint.

Mineral Spirits is sold at WalMart, Lowe's Home Depot and just about any hardware store. A generic brand will do as your only using it as a wash. Use it straight in a cotton towel or a Microfiber will work too.

DuPont also makes a body wash brand name Prep-Sol 3919s which is manufactured for use in body and paint shops. I used this for years and it's a great product to have around.

Marine Supplies Store, Marine supply, Boating supply, Equipment (http://www.merrittsupply.com/DuPont-Prep-Sol-3919S-Cleaning-Solvent-Gallon-PN-3919S-P3428.aspx)

Yeah I also thought that tree sap has a layer of substance sitting on top of the paint. This doesn't have anything that I can see.

I'll try to checkout mineral spirits and see if it removes it. I'm so tempted to try Sonax FE just to see if it's iron based or not. I still haven't fully polished our Altima yet and there are still some specks left.

Thanks again to everyone who helped! Much appreciated.

[Marc08EX]

My Altima has something that looks very similar, if not the same as the tiny black spots shown in this picture:

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1097/IMG_1859.JPG

Image taken from: http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/new-car-care-products/34825-iron-x-action.html