how is a rotary faster than a DA style?

[flyinion]

I see a number of comments that make it sound like a rotary buffer cuts down the buffing time. I'm wondering how this works? For instance, on my PC with a swirl remover like Wolfgang TSR I might do 6 section passes before removing the residue. How would a rotary make this faster? Would it cause the TSR to break down faster? Or is it just that the increased correction power means you just don't do as many passes over the panel?

[VIP Reflections]

you kinda answered your own question there in your last sentence. Rotary buffers have forced rotation, DA (Dual Action) polishers oscillate(orbiting motion). The forced rotation from a Rotary creates more friction on the surface. More friction=more cutting ability. also, A DA polisher is measured in OPM's(orbits per min) 6800 OPM is a common high setting , Rotary's measure in RPM, 8,000 RPM is a common high speed on a rotary... 8,000 RPM is > 6,800 OPM. more speed = more friction which = more cutting ability. im sure someone like Mike P. explained it 10 times better and in depth on a thread somewhere here. use the search to find out what you can if need be

[PAR Detailing]

you kinda answered your own question there in your last sentence. Rotary buffers have forced rotation, DA (Dual Action) polishers oscillate(orbiting motion). The forced rotation from a Rotary creates more friction on the surface. More friction=more cutting ability. also, A DA polisher is measured in OPM's(orbits per min) 6800 OPM is a common high setting , Rotary's measure in RPM, 8,000 RPM is a common high speed on a rotary... 8,000 RPM is > 6,800 OPM. more speed = more friction which = more cutting ability. im sure someone like Mike P. explained it 10 times better and in depth on a thread somewhere here. use the search to find out what you can if need be

I have never seen a rotary buffer that goes up to 8,000 rpm. My Hitachi tops out at 3,400rpm and you dont polish at a speed much higher than 2000rpm. I personally stay at around 1200rpm. You are correct that a rotary is a direct drive machine that will not stop spinning and it does create more friction leading to potentially more cutting power than a DA. I just think you have your numbers wrong. I used my rotary at 3400 once just for fun (The bumper was getting repainted anyway) and it burned it in a flash. I just didnt want anyone to grab a rotary and put it on the highest setting and torch a car.

[VIP Reflections]

ooops, ya it should say 3,000RPM. ya not intended for anyone to polish at that speed , just a comparison so dont do it. Really i stand corrected though. you can not compare OPM to RPM. because OPM on a DA are Random. its not the same every time. Imagine how fast the paint would burn at 8,000RPM lol.

[Wendell Jarvis]

My Makita 9227 only goes to 6000 rpm, I love this machine, when Jeweling you can crank it up to 2500 or 3000 and takes no time to break down the polish and looks great.

[PAR Detailing]

My Makita 9227 only goes to 6000 rpm, I love this machine, when Jeweling you can crank it up to 2500 or 3000 and takes no time to break down the polish and looks great.

The makita goes to 3000 not 6000. I still think 3000 is too fast for polishing but that is just my take on it

[LegacyGT]

In the 102 class Mike suggests doing 3-4 passes with the rotary before wiping off and checking the results. Less passes combined with a faster arm speed when using the rotary = less time.

[flyinion]

Thanks guys, I figured it had something to do with the rotary breaking down the compound quicker due to the extra heat and cutting action of the rotary. I guess as a test of if I'm understanding this would be in relation to the Wolfgang TSR which when you do a number of passes with the DA is supposed to break down and give a finished or near finished quality without necessarily needing a glaze/polish on top. So a rotary would do the same thing but just break it down quicker?

I guess where I'm going with this line of questions is that I'm thinking of replacing my porter cable (non xp version) with either the Flex DA or maybe a rotary as being my main tool (keep the PC for LSP's or something) but I'm associating rotaries as something to use on paint that's really bad where the paint on my car which would be my primary use for the tool is in pretty decent shape other than some normal wear & tear swirls that are hard to see on silver. I don't have any bad oxidation or water spotting/etching problems though. I think the main thing that is appealing to me is the faster time so I can either cut down detail time or if I need to use more products for some reason, get more done in the same amount of time.

[Desert Detail & More]

I'm ready for a rotary, cause this 5+ hours on a paint correction is killing me. What part of Sacramento your from? I'm from Fruitridge, and Powers Inn area..

[flyinion]

I'm ready for a rotary, cause this 5+ hours on a paint correction is killing me. What part of Sacramento your from? I'm from Fruitridge, and Powers Inn area..

Grew up in Citrus Heights and the Greenback & I-80 areas, moved out of state for about 10 years and now I'm back in the N. Natomas area around "Arco" Arena.

[Mike Phillips]

Thanks guys, I figured it had something to do with the rotary breaking down the compound quicker due to the extra heat and cutting action of the rotary.



Diminishing abrasives break down with pressure over time. Heat is an unwanted and unnecessary byproduct from the heat and pressure.






I guess where I'm going with this line of questions is that I'm thinking of replacing my porter cable (non xp version) with either the Flex DA or maybe a rotary as being my main tool (keep the PC for LSP's or something) but I'm associating rotaries as something to use on paint that's really bad where the paint on my car which would be my primary use for the tool is in pretty decent shape other than some normal wear & tear swirls that are hard to see on silver.



The nicer the condition of the paint the easier and faster it will be to polish no matter what the tool. I think that most people that are experienced with the rotary buffer and other oscillating types of tools will agree that the rotary with the right pad and polish will create the highest gloss possible, the problem is that it can also impart holograms that you often can't see on white or light colored paints and also you often can't see the holograms unless you strip the finish and move the paint/car into bright overhead sunlight.

I don't see a lot of talk on any forum about people stripping paint after the last rotary buffer step to prove or ensure the paint is 100% swirl free, I do see a lot of talk about how everyone can finish down 100% swirl free, just no mention of how they know?

If you finish down with only a rotary and don't see any holograms then either there are none, or the polishing oils from the last rotary buffer applied product are filling or masking them. If at this point you apply a wax or paint sealant and then maintain the wax or paint sealant, then it's kind of a mute point as you won't know if there are holograms and if there are you won't see them.

I would recommend getting the Flex PE14 if you're new to the rotary buffer and also get one of the flexible backing plates I list in this thread and some size matching foam pads.

Flexible Backing Plates (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wool-foam-buffing-pads/33907-flexible-backing-plates.html)



It's a real easy rotary buffer to handle and that's a comment I heard over and over again at from everyone in our last Detailing 101 Class as everyone had a chance to test out the Flex PE14


:)

[96Lude]

I think it's always safer to finish with the DA instead of a rotary. Therefore if you have removed the major defects with the rotary, polishing as a final step with the DA should go fairly quickly.

[flyinion]

The nicer the condition of the paint the easier and faster it will be to polish no matter what the tool. I think that most people that are experienced with the rotary buffer and other oscillating types of tools will agree that the rotary with the right pad and polish will create the highest gloss possible, the problem is that it can also impart holograms that you often can't see on white or light colored paints and also you often can't see the holograms unless you strip the finish and move the paint/car into bright overhead sunlight.


I would recommend getting the Flex PE14 if you're new to the rotary buffer and also get one of the flexible backing plates I list in this thread and some size matching foam pads.

Flexible Backing Plates (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wool-foam-buffing-pads/33907-flexible-backing-plates.html)



It's a real easy rotary buffer to handle and that's a comment I heard over and over again at from everyone in our last Detailing 101 Class as everyone had a chance to test out the Flex PE14


:)

Thanks Mike, I didn't think about the paint color making it hard to see the holograms. It's already hard enough to tell whether I even need swirl remover/etc. on it.


I think it's always safer to finish with the DA instead of a rotary. Therefore if you have removed the major defects with the rotary, polishing as a final step with the DA should go fairly quickly.

Sounds reasonable. Though in my case I probably wouldn't get much use out of the rotary then since I don't expect to have to be doing major correction much.

[Desert Detail & More]

Grew up in Citrus Heights and the Greenback & I-80 areas, moved out of state for about 10 years and now I'm back in the N. Natomas area around "Arco" Arena.
Yeah I left Sacramento in 90, and never came back, glad I did cause the nazi police would have a field day with my cars. LOL I lived across the tracks from proctor and gamble, and the old army base.