Menzernas Product questions?

[Wills.WindowsAndWheels]

I'm mostly a megs user, but i see many posts on here with people who have used menz products and I just want sort of a comparison as to what Menz product is equivalent to Megs.

For example 105 is megs most aggressive compound...what is Menz?

205 is the polish to follow....what is menz?

Something like 16,26,20 or 21 is used as a LSP for megs...what about Menz?

Are there any OTHER often used Menz products that dont fall into likeness with the listed Megs products.

Thanks everyone

[Rei86]

Don't know about you but I hear people going with this combo a lot M105 -> M205 -> PO85RD. I also don't hear about people using anything else but Menz SIP, PO85RD and Power Lock. Seems to be the three favorite products on every detail forums.

As far as comparable products I'm sure this chart can give you a kind of an idea of what is what

Autogeek Swirl Removers & Compounds Comparison Chart (http://www.auto-geek.net/charts/wax-cut-chart-master.htm)

[Wills.WindowsAndWheels]

Don't know about you but I hear people going with this combo a lot M105 -> M205 -> PO85RD. I also don't hear about people using anything else but Menz SIP, PO85RD and Power Lock. Seems to be the three favorite products on every detail forums.

As far as comparable products I'm sure this chart can give you a kind of an idea of what is what

Autogeek Swirl Removers & Compounds Comparison Chart (http://www.auto-geek.net/charts/wax-cut-chart-master.htm)


That helps...pretty cool chart. So the PO85RD is still a polish though right...so it doesnt provide any protection...just added gloss?

[Rei86]

From my understanding PO85RD just finishes better then M205 and gives it a LSP ready surface. But yeah IT is a polish with ZERO protection on the paint after you're done using it.

[Desert Detail & More]

Power Gloss is equal to M105

[Wills.WindowsAndWheels]

Ok gotcha...:) thanks

[gmck]

Menzerna make a range of very good compounds/polishes, but the naming system leaves a little to be desired and so does that chart. Also it would appear that there are different products available in different parts of the world. It is far more accurate to refer to them by the part number system rather than the generic names such as Final Finish. The part number system is not exactly intuitive, but it is worth learning because you just may end up with the wrong product otherwise, when two products can share the same generic name.

I've not used them all but the ones I do use are the following, most aggressive to least aggressive.

P034S (Power Gloss)
P0203S (Power Finish)
P01066FF (Final Finish)
P085RD (Final Finish)

Menzerna have a rating system for both cut and gloss 1- 5. 5 is the most cut and 5 is the most gloss, so each product has a rating 1-5 for cut and 1-5 for gloss. All their products unlike M105 and M205 are diminishing abrasive compounds/polishes.

Some notes may help - P034S has more cut than M105, but it will definitely leave a haze on most paints. My choice would be M105 normally, but when M105 doesn't play nice as it does with some paints then I usually go with P034S. P0203S can often be used after M105 to remove any hazing that M105 may leave, but before using either PO1066FF or P085RD. For instance older BMW paint just loves P0203S after M105. Some regard P0203S as a 1 stepper, but since I don't do that sort of work, I won't try and expand on that.

My two favourites would be P0106FF (there is also a FA version which I haven't used as it is not available where I am). They both have the same gloss rating (5), but P0106FF has a cut of 2.5 as compared to P085RD (1.5). P085RD is regarded by most as a jewelling polish, but you can achieve exactly the same result with P0106FF, so I'd have to say P0106FF is the more versatile of the two. For your comparison I'd say M205 probably comes in at P0203S or in some cases as P0106FF. Personally M205 just doesn't do it for me, so I'd rather skip M205. I still keep it around just in case, but I haven't used it much lately.

As you can see by their product labels they are designed for rotary use. They do work with DAs, but they really have to be worked hard with a DA. Think speed 6 and just leave it at that for all of them. They take forever to break down with a DA. Obviously some people like that (long work time) but I really don't think that is correct when you compare how they work with a rotary. The cycle with a rotary is really quick. You work them using the Zenith technique - low speed, high speed and back to low speed as the abrasives diminish. That is extremely difficult to achieve with a DA unless you have a really powerful DA that will always spin no matter the load. Once you've used them with a rotary I really doubt you'd go back to a DA, especially for both P0106FF and P085RD. I've not come across any polish that can finish like those two.

They (P0106FF and P085RD) are extremely versatile depending on what pad you use. Anything from LC White down to LC Red can be used depending on the hardness of the paint and what you are trying to achieve. They also work well with LC Hydro Tech pads especially the Crimson pad for jewelling with P085RD. Obviously the pad choice really depends on what you are trying to do.

Some negatives - they all tend to dust some, especially with a DA - some people here really hate anything that dusts. I've always reckoned compounding paint is a dirty business, so dusting isn't a great concern to me as I know I'm going to be washing the vehicle a number of times during a correction, so no big deal to wash away a little dust.


Something like 16,26,20 or 21 is used as a LSP for megs...what about Menz?

Menzerna don't make a sealant other than their APO Sealing Wax which is a carnauba incorporated with a chemical cleaner. Nice product but it is not a sealant. Powerlock is not a Menzerna product but a Menzerna USA product.

If you want a good quality sealant, take a look at Optimum's Opti-Seal or better yet forget sealants and go straight to Opti-Coat.

[redg35]

^^^Good post

[embolism]

Another thing to note is that Menz polishes use DAT (diminishing abrasive technology) while Meg's polishes use SMAT (super micro abrasive technology).

Like the names imply, Meg's has really small abrasives that take little bites out of the paint from the get go so whether you do 1 pass or 4 passes, you are getting the same level of finish (whether you've levelled the paint enough to get out all the swirls is another story).

The menz polish abrasives are larger and break down into smaller pieces as you work it. So you start off with bigger grit and end with smaller grit provided you work the polish through it's cycle (Menz polishes generally have longer working times than Megs b/c you need it to break down the abrasives).

I think the general consensus I get from reading is M105/205 is preferred for hard paints, while Menz/Wolfgang is preferred for softer paints (mainly b/c the diminishing abrasives finish down nicer on soft paints).

[BobbyG]

Menzerna make a range of very good compounds/polishes, but the naming system leaves a little to be desired and so does that chart. Also it would appear that there are different products available in different parts of the world. It is far more accurate to refer to them by the part number system rather than the generic names such as Final Finish. The part number system is not exactly intuitive, but it is worth learning because you just may end up with the wrong product otherwise, when two products can share the same generic name.

I've not used them all but the ones I do use are the following, most aggressive to least aggressive.

P034S (Power Gloss)
P0203S (Power Finish)
P01066FF (Final Finish)
P085RD (Final Finish)

Menzerna have a rating system for both cut and gloss 1- 5. 5 is the most cut and 5 is the most gloss, so each product has a rating 1-5 for cut and 1-5 for gloss. All their products unlike M105 and M205 are diminishing abrasive compounds/polishes.

Some notes may help - P034S has more cut than M105, but it will definitely leave a haze on most paints. My choice would be M105 normally, but when M105 doesn't play nice as it does with some paints then I usually go with P034S. P0203S can often be used after M105 to remove any hazing that M105 may leave, but before using either PO1066FF or P085RD. For instance older BMW paint just loves P0203S after M105. Some regard P0203S as a 1 stepper, but since I don't do that sort of work, I won't try and expand on that.

My two favourites would be P0106FF (there is also a FA version which I haven't used as it is not available where I am). They both have the same gloss rating (5), but P0106FF has a cut of 2.5 as compared to P085RD (1.5). P085RD is regarded by most as a jewelling polish, but you can achieve exactly the same result with P0106FF, so I'd have to say P0106FF is the more versatile of the two. For your comparison I'd say M205 probably comes in at P0203S or in some cases as P0106FF. Personally M205 just doesn't do it for me, so I'd rather skip M205. I still keep it around just in case, but I haven't used it much lately.

As you can see by their product labels they are designed for rotary use. They do work with DAs, but they really have to be worked hard with a DA. Think speed 6 and just leave it at that for all of them. They take forever to break down with a DA. Obviously some people like that (long work time) but I really don't think that is correct when you compare how they work with a rotary. The cycle with a rotary is really quick. You work them using the Zenith technique - low speed, high speed and back to low speed as the abrasives diminish. That is extremely difficult to achieve with a DA unless you have a really powerful DA that will always spin no matter the load. Once you've used them with a rotary I really doubt you'd go back to a DA, especially for both P0106FF and P085RD. I've not come across any polish that can finish like those two.

They (P0106FF and P085RD) are extremely versatile depending on what pad you use. Anything from LC White down to LC Red can be used depending on the hardness of the paint and what you are trying to achieve. They also work well with LC Hydro Tech pads especially the Crimson pad for jewelling with P085RD. Obviously the pad choice really depends on what you are trying to do.

Some negatives - they all tend to dust some, especially with a DA - some people here really hate anything that dusts. I've always reckoned compounding paint is a dirty business, so dusting isn't a great concern to me as I know I'm going to be washing the vehicle a number of times during a correction, so no big deal to wash away a little dust.



Menzerna don't make a sealant other than their APO Sealing Wax which is a carnauba incorporated with a chemical cleaner. Nice product but it is not a sealant. Powerlock is not a Menzerna product but a Menzerna USA product.

If you want a good quality sealant, take a look at Optimum's Opti-Seal or better yet forget sealants and go straight to Opti-Coat.

This is a great post with allot of detail and comparisons, very nice! :props:

[Rei86]

...

Thank you for the amazing post filled with great info:xyxthumbs:

[Wills.WindowsAndWheels]

Menzerna make a range of very good compounds/polishes, but the naming system leaves a little to be desired and so does that chart. Also it would appear that there are different products available in different parts of the world. It is far more accurate to refer to them by the part number system rather than the generic names such as Final Finish. The part number system is not exactly intuitive, but it is worth learning because you just may end up with the wrong product otherwise, when two products can share the same generic name.

I've not used them all but the ones I do use are the following, most aggressive to least aggressive.

P034S (Power Gloss)
P0203S (Power Finish)
P01066FF (Final Finish)
P085RD (Final Finish)

Menzerna have a rating system for both cut and gloss 1- 5. 5 is the most cut and 5 is the most gloss, so each product has a rating 1-5 for cut and 1-5 for gloss. All their products unlike M105 and M205 are diminishing abrasive compounds/polishes.

Some notes may help - P034S has more cut than M105, but it will definitely leave a haze on most paints. My choice would be M105 normally, but when M105 doesn't play nice as it does with some paints then I usually go with P034S. P0203S can often be used after M105 to remove any hazing that M105 may leave, but before using either PO1066FF or P085RD. For instance older BMW paint just loves P0203S after M105. Some regard P0203S as a 1 stepper, but since I don't do that sort of work, I won't try and expand on that.

My two favourites would be P0106FF (there is also a FA version which I haven't used as it is not available where I am). They both have the same gloss rating (5), but P0106FF has a cut of 2.5 as compared to P085RD (1.5). P085RD is regarded by most as a jewelling polish, but you can achieve exactly the same result with P0106FF, so I'd have to say P0106FF is the more versatile of the two. For your comparison I'd say M205 probably comes in at P0203S or in some cases as P0106FF. Personally M205 just doesn't do it for me, so I'd rather skip M205. I still keep it around just in case, but I haven't used it much lately.

As you can see by their product labels they are designed for rotary use. They do work with DAs, but they really have to be worked hard with a DA. Think speed 6 and just leave it at that for all of them. They take forever to break down with a DA. Obviously some people like that (long work time) but I really don't think that is correct when you compare how they work with a rotary. The cycle with a rotary is really quick. You work them using the Zenith technique - low speed, high speed and back to low speed as the abrasives diminish. That is extremely difficult to achieve with a DA unless you have a really powerful DA that will always spin no matter the load. Once you've used them with a rotary I really doubt you'd go back to a DA, especially for both P0106FF and P085RD. I've not come across any polish that can finish like those two.

They (P0106FF and P085RD) are extremely versatile depending on what pad you use. Anything from LC White down to LC Red can be used depending on the hardness of the paint and what you are trying to achieve. They also work well with LC Hydro Tech pads especially the Crimson pad for jewelling with P085RD. Obviously the pad choice really depends on what you are trying to do.

Some negatives - they all tend to dust some, especially with a DA - some people here really hate anything that dusts. I've always reckoned compounding paint is a dirty business, so dusting isn't a great concern to me as I know I'm going to be washing the vehicle a number of times during a correction, so no big deal to wash away a little dust.



Menzerna don't make a sealant other than their APO Sealing Wax which is a carnauba incorporated with a chemical cleaner. Nice product but it is not a sealant. Powerlock is not a Menzerna product but a Menzerna USA product.

If you want a good quality sealant, take a look at Optimum's Opti-Seal or better yet forget sealants and go straight to Opti-Coat.


Great post...i appreciate the info and that helps clear things up quite a bit. Care to share what you know about Opti-coat...that was the other product i just made a thread on asking questions about lol....as far as its application...durability....and what one would charge to apply it compared to what you'd normally charge for a regular sealant.

[gmck]

Opti-Coat is a revolutionary product.

It should not be considered as just another sealant. It is a liquid resin that when cured adds what might be considered as an extra layer of clear coat. Theoretically it provides indefinite protection. It won't wash off with Dawn and can only be removed by further polishing in the same way as your clear coat can be removed. Just like your clear coat it can be maintained by polishing - hit it too hard and you'll remove it, so to maintain it use something mild like Optimum's Poli-Seal.

I've now read your other thread - no it doesn't contain any fillers. If the prep leaves the vehicle with swirls etc. then they will be obviously still visible after an application of Opti-Coat. I personally don't see the point in using the product unless the paint surface is absolutely perfect.

It is a little tricky to use first up - most people seem to screw it up the first time, but there are plenty of threads here that describe how to do it. You can also fix up small screw ups with Poli-Seal without having to start over. There are also a number of videos that demonstrate various ways to apply it. Use the search function and just look for Opti-Coat 2.0. It probably would be a good idea to also check the Optimum forums for more information on using it. After all that, I'd still suggest having a practice on a panel of your own car before you decide to do a customer's car.

I'm not going to discuss pricing here - but think of it this way. An 8oz bottle of Opti-Seal (probably the best sealant going around) is about $25. You can do about 30-40 vehicles with one bottle. 20cc of Opti-Coat is $60 and that may get you 3 medium sized vehicles. Work out your costs and price appropriately for what your clients are prepared to pay. The actual application of Opti-Coat is very similar to an application of Opti-Seal so the time taken to apply either would be about the same.

Just remember the paint has to be perfect and the paint has to be squeaky clean before you apply it. Squeaky clean means no polish residues etc. See the other threads for all the suggested methods of how to get it squeaky clean. When you have waded through all that stuff - forget it all and just thoroughly wash the vehicle with something like Dawn and make sure the surface is still not beeding from what ever was there previously and you are right to go.

[Wills.WindowsAndWheels]

Opti-Coat is a revolutionary product.

It should not be considered as just another sealant. It is a liquid resin that when cured adds what might be considered as an extra layer of clear coat. Theoretically it provides indefinite protection. It won't wash off with Dawn and can only be removed by further polishing in the same way as your clear coat can be removed. Just like your clear coat it can be maintained by polishing - hit it too hard and you'll remove it, so to maintain it use something mild like Optimum's Poli-Seal.

I've now read your other thread - no it doesn't contain any fillers. If the prep leaves the vehicle with swirls etc. then they will be obviously still visible after an application of Opti-Coat. I personally don't see the point in using the product unless the paint surface is absolutely perfect.

It is a little tricky to use first up - most people seem to screw it up the first time, but there are plenty of threads here that describe how to do it. You can also fix up small screw ups with Poli-Seal without having to start over. There are also a number of videos that demonstrate various ways to apply it. Use the search function and just look for Opti-Coat 2.0. It probably would be a good idea to also check the Optimum forums for more information on using it. After all that, I'd still suggest having a practice on a panel of your own car before you decide to do a customer's car.

I'm not going to discuss pricing here - but think of it this way. An 8oz bottle of Opti-Seal (probably the best sealant going around) is about $25. You can do about 30-40 vehicles with one bottle. 20cc of Opti-Coat is $60 and that may get you 3 medium sized vehicles. Work out your costs and price appropriately for what your clients are prepared to pay. The actual application of Opti-Coat is very similar to an application of Opti-Seal so the time taken to apply either would be about the same.

Just remember the paint has to be perfect and the paint has to be squeaky clean before you apply it. Squeaky clean means no polish residues etc. See the other threads for all the suggested methods of how to get it squeaky clean. When you have waded through all that stuff - forget it all and just thoroughly wash the vehicle with something like Dawn and make sure the surface is still not beeding from what ever was there previously and you are right to go.


Yeah Ive been reading pages (and pages and pages) on the stuff...it sounds good and i am for sure considering using it as an up sell...ive got a friend with a pretty sweet car that i planned on polishing out (with my new flex i just ordered:props:) and maybe i'll seal it with OC and see how i do. Now i know it says it can be used on ALL exterior surfaces...but his car has a vinyl top (its a lincoln town car..96')...can it be used on that too...or on a cloth top for that matter??

[gmck]

Now i know it says it can be used on ALL exterior surfaces...but his car has a vinyl top (its a lincoln town car..96')...can it be used on that too...or on a cloth top for that matter??

No.