View Full Version : Pictures & Comments from May 15th, 2011 Sunday Detailing 102 - Advanced Class

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Mike Phillips
05-12-2011, 06:26 PM
Pictures & Comments from May 15th, 2011 Sunday Detailing 102 - Advanced Class (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/pictures-sunday-detailing-102-advanced-class/35792-pictures-comments-may-15th-2011-sunday-detailing-102-advanced-class.html)

Full Class

Do you want to attend a Detailing Class?
Do you want to learn the art of polishing paint to remove swirls, scratches, water spots and even orange peel? Then send me an e-mail...

If you want to be notified when the next Detailing 101 and 102 classes are scheduled, then please send me an e-mail, (not a Private Message), with the subject: Class Request to Mike.Phillips@Autogeek.net (Mike.Phillips@Autogeek.net)

Hands-on Classes with Mike Phillips


Mike Phillips
05-15-2011, 06:10 AM
The 101 Class was a blast yesterday and today we'll be having even more fun as we go over wetsanding and machine buffing for a show car finish!

Mmmm... pizza lunch....


Mike Phillips
05-15-2011, 03:59 PM
Today's class was an absolute blast as we went through all the steps to wetsand by hand, machine sand, remove sanding marks using a rotary buffer, polish to a high gloss using a rotary buffer and then finish out using a DA Polisher.

Here's a few pictures from the class, more on Monday...










Thank you to all our students, all my co-workers for helping out, a special thanks to Yancy for all his work running the cameras, Mel Craig for giving me a hand to make sure all the students got plenty of hands-on training, all of our Online Guests for their participation and feedback and also to Max McKee for having the vision to build the classroom and then open the doors to enthusiasts from all around the world.


Porsche Pilot
05-15-2011, 06:20 PM
I was invited to be one of the online beta testers for the class. Thanks by the way AG. Unfortunately last nights storm was very wicked. One of my oak trees decided to grace my neighbors living room with its presence. Sorry I missed the class. I look forward to hearing the feedback from the other beta testers.

05-15-2011, 08:35 PM
ED - That sounds pretty intense!

I was also beta testing, and I think we found some areas for improvement in the video feed. The information was top notch, and felt like we were there, only my smell-o-vision was not working correctly so I missed out on smelling all of the polishes, and getting wet-sanding splatter everywhere.

Porsche Pilot
05-15-2011, 08:38 PM
I cant tell ya how much I wanted to join in Bill. It sounds like some exciting changes are afoot at AG!

05-16-2011, 12:56 PM
I attended both classes, one of the best weekends I've had! This class by far though was quite the experience. well worth it to anyone who would like to add to or completely learn a thorough technique of a show quality paint job. If you missed this weekend, you missed out. make sure to sign up for the next classes, you "won't" be dissapointed. Thanks to everyone who organized and made that class run as smoothly and efficient as it did! I enjoyed every minute of class time! Thanks -Joe

05-17-2011, 02:53 AM
Hi all James from the uk here..

I participated in the Sunday Beta test, wish i could have been on the saturday one also but the UK contingent was split enabling 2 to participate which was nice...:laughing:

Mike very kindly asked for a volunteer from the uk off the Detailing World Site... Mike's Request below... Mike having already posted it elsewhere on Autogeek.

Detailing World (http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=2799879#post2799879)

A fantastic experience i was honoured to participate in, very informative as ever and im sure we can get it fully Polished... no punn intended..:laughing:
To ensure its just like being there... Minus the splatter... but for the smells i can just take the top of my products....

There were even Wookie's calling in the shop....:laughing: didnt see any but could hear them..:laughing:

Would love to participate again...:dblthumb2:

I tested on the Imac, macbook pro, Ipad Mk1 and to not much joy on the ipod Touch second Gen but that could have been down to many variables...:laughing:

A great experience and community was great to be able to txt chat to the other testers also...
All the best for the future and Yancy you are a star Sir..

Dr Oldz
05-17-2011, 10:37 PM
I would like to watch the next 102 class. Will that be available via live feed?

Mike Phillips
05-20-2011, 10:45 AM
Well I went through all the pictures from the Saturday Class and was able to get them all cropped, resized, uploaded and inserted here...

Pictures from the Saturday Detailing 101 Class (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/pictures-saturday-detailing-101/35791-pictures-comments-may-14th-2011-saturday-detailing-101-a-3.html)

Now for some pictures from our 102 Advanced Class on Wetsanding, Cutting and Buffing. This class goes over hand sanding, two types of machine sanding and then using Rotary Buffers to remove your sanding marks and polish to a high gloss.

There's a lot of questions and confusion about the topic of wetsanding and to try to help answer any questions and clear up any confusion I wrote this article a few years ago... BEFORE you ever even think about doing any type of sanding to your own car or to a customer's car, I highly recommend reading this article,

Wet-sanding - Fresh Paint vs Factory Paint (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wet-sanding-cutting-buffing/21471-wet-sanding-fresh-paint-vs-factory-paint.html)

This is a short article and it clears up any confusion about the terms used in this segment of the painting and detailing world.

Wet-sanding, Color-sanding & Damp-sanding (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wet-sanding-cutting-buffing/26278-wet-sanding-color-sanding-damp-sanding.html)

Now on to the results from the Advanced Class...

First up we went through about a 60 slide Power Point Presentation to get head knowledge first. After that we take a break and then start in with techniques for hand sanding followed by techniques for machine dampsanding using the 3M Orbital DA Sander, (air-powered).

Here's a few pictures...

We start by going over how to use a Paint Thickness Gage and how to use the readings to determine and make a Go/No Go decision.

Defelsko PosiTest DFT Combo Electronic Paint Thickness Gauge (http://www.autogeek.net/paint-thickness-gauge.html)

Next we went over how to prepare your finishing papers for wetsanding including placing Grit Guard Inserts in the bottom of your buckets to trap particles on the bottom and away from the sanding process to help avoid instilling Tracers into the paint.


I have an article that talks about the different types of "Below Surface Defects" including Tracers here,

Tracers Tracers - RIDS - Pigtails - Cobweb Swirls - Rotary Buffer Swirls - Holograms - Water Spots - Bird Drooping Etchings - Micro-Marring (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/22234-tracers-rids-pigtails-cobweb-swirls-rotary-buffer-swirls-holograms-water-spots-bird-droping-etchings-micro-marring.html)

Deeper scratches left by the hand sanding process, usually in straight-lines because most people move their hand in a back and forth motion when wet-sanding. Tracers show up after you machine compound the paint and remove all the shallow scratches. After the shallow scratches or sanding marks are removed what remains in the paint is the deeper sanding marks and these are called tracers. Tracers are usually difficult to remove because they are deeper and removing them means either re-sanding to level the surface or re-compounding to machine buff them out. The problem with re-sanding is that you could remove one group of tracers only to leave behind a new set of tracers, so the problem can be a Catch-22 situation. This is why it's so important to use the highest quality finishing papers you can obtain, at least for your last sanding steps. It is possible to remove tracers using the Feathersanding Technique (http://www.autopia.org/forum/autogeek-net/124750-rids-feathersanding-highly-specialized-technique-mike-phillips.html) if there are not too many of them.

Then we went over the two ways to wrap your finishing papers around a rubber backing pad...


All this information is covered in the Power Point Presentation but it really makes a difference as each person that's never wetsanded before gets to try their hand at it and choose the style that works best for them...

Lots of information on this topic here,

Basic Hand Sanding Techniques (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wet-sanding-cutting-buffing/21974-basic-hand-sanding-techniques.html)

For our class we don't use basic wet/dry automotive papers we use a "Finishing" paper where the technology behind how the paper is made has its origins in the electronics industry.

What I'm pointing out is that not only do the Nikken Finishing Papers (http://www.autogeek.net/meguiars-sandpapers.html) offer Unigrit particle size but they also offer 100% distribution of the particles over the entire face of the paper. This is just as important as Unigrit particle size.


The next thing we do is go over the 3 different approaches to hand sanding, this is covered in the Power Point Presentation and now demonstrated to re-enforce what is discussed during the classroom portion.


And I have an article on the topic of which direction to move your hand when hand sanding...

Two Schools of Thought when Hand Sanding - Straight-lines or Crosshatch Pattern (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wet-sanding-cutting-buffing/22235-two-schools-thought-sanding-straightlines-crosshatch-pattern.html)

After hand sanding we use a spare rubber backing pad to squeegee off the excess water slurry which not only removes the majority of the water off the paint but helps to expose where the paint is now flat and were Orange Peel yet remains.

One of the goals for sanding paint, whether by hand or machine is to create the flattest surface possible to maximize D.O.I. and if there is any orange peel in the paint then the paint needs to be sanded until it's flat.



After the different techniques are demonstrated the students are turned loose on the practice hoods to try for themselves the art of hand sanding...


Here's Mel Craig wiping off the water slurry to help one of the students inspect their results...

More pictures to come...


Mike Phillips
05-20-2011, 11:06 AM

You can see students wrapping their papers around backing pads in this shot and also using a backing pad to squeegee off water slurry and another student hand sanding...

The Advanced Class is a very fast-paced, busy but fun class but you must first attend the Detailing 101 Class (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/company-forum-news-headlines/30393-do-you-want-attend-detailing-class.html).



After everyone has hand sanded using #2000 and #25000 Finishing Papers, next we move on to Machine Sanding. We start with the traditional air-powered 3M Orbital DA Sander (http://www.autogeek.net/3m-orbital-air-sander.html).


This is called dampsanding, it's a technique for machine sanding that requires much less water than normal wetsanding by hand. In the below picture I'm misting some clean water, with NO soap for a lube onto the paint and then I'll mist a little directly onto the face of the Unigrit Foam Finishing Disc.

Then we go over the techniques to machine dampsand...

I have a very detailed article on the dampsanding for anyone interested...

Damp-Sanding Tools, Tips and Techniques by Mike Phillips (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wet-sanding-cutting-buffing/25915-damp-sanding-tools-tips-techniques-mike-phillips.html)


At this point it was time to take an early lunch as Episode 7 of What's in the Garage? (http://www.masterstv.com/AutoGeekWhatsInTheGaragetv.html) was about to start so we timed Pizza for 11:30am.

More to come!


05-21-2011, 06:11 AM
After everyone has hand sanded using #2000 and #25000 Finishing Papers, next we move on to Machine Sanding. We start with the traditional air-powered 3M Orbital DA Sander.

Wow that is super fine paper.......Sticky keys...:laughing:

Mike Phillips
06-04-2011, 09:57 AM
Mmm.... pizza for lunch...


Here's an over the shoulder shot where you can see Yancy running the Chat Session for the Live Broadcast...

Historically we keep the Detailing 102 Class limited to a max of 12 to 15 people for a high student to instructor ratio. Also because we cover a LOT of material in one day, like hand sanding, machine sanding, compounding with a rotary buffer, polishing with a rotary buffer, polishing with a DA, plus all the side lessons, like using a PTG, cleaning pads with spurs and two kinds of pad washers, and always plenty of questions and answers...


We timed our lunch break to watch our TV show, "What's in the Garage?"

This week it was Episode 7 (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/what-s-garage/35877-episode-7-sunday.html), which included Earl the Plumber's Hot Rod Collection.


If you look in the very back, far right you'll see Earl as he stopped by to watch the show with us and enjoy some car guy commrodery...

Earl's cars being filmed for the TV show...


Mike Phillips
06-04-2011, 10:10 AM
After lunch it was time to dive into machine sanding and since we were using the Meguiar's Unigrit Finishing Discs technically we were doing dampsanding....


Father/Son Team checking out the throttle on the 3M Orbital DA Sander

Here's I'm showing Allen how to align the Finishing Disc to the Interface pad before dampsanding...

Focusing on the task at hand... (very good)

You learn a lot in these classes but you also have a lot of fun...

Focusing on the task at hand... very important anytime you're sanding by hand or machine!

Here's Larry trying out the 3M Orbital DA Sander, notice how he has the air line over his shoulder and controls it with his free hand, that's because since it's under pressure it's very stiff and if you don't control it... it can make it difficult to keep the sanding disc flat to the surface.

Here's Kyle using the Porter Cable to dampsand... he also has the cord over his shoulder but because the cord is limp it doesn't affect the angle of the finishing disk to the panel, Kyle has complete control.

More pictures to come... http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/images/smilies/picture.gif

Mike Phillips
06-04-2011, 10:14 AM

We make sure everyone gets plenty of time to do all three styles of sanding, hand sanding, machine sanding with an air-powered DA Sander and machine sanding using an electric DA Polisher...








Next up, we move on to compounding using rotary buffers and wool cutting pads to remove our sanding marks...

More pictures to come... http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/images/smilies/picture.gif