First Swirl Removing Experience with PC 7424XP

[drmayer]

I own a 2005 Nissan pathfinder that i bought used 2 years ago. The body was in decent shapes, no noticeable dents, scratches, or rust. I enjoy a clean, shiny car as much as anyone here, but whatever i tried i couldn't get it to shine like i had hoped.

Fast forward to a few weeks ago. I was browsing the AG website, reading articles on paint care, and decided i wanted to invest in a DA polisher and any needed accessories as i learned my paint was badly swirled. I ordered the PC7424XP with pinnacle swirl remover, finishing polish, and an orange, white and gray foam pads. I watched the videos as i waited for the kit to arrive to get a head start on the process. The kit arrived, and i figured i'd do the hood to start off and get my technique down.

I washed the car, and proceeded to go through the steps of swirl removal, polishing, and waxing (meguiars nxt 2.0). I was very pleased with the results, as the vast majority of the swirls were gone and the paint was like a mirror.

I completed this a few days ago, and tonight i went to the garage to admire my work, and noticed some dust on the surface. I grabbed my quick detailing spray, and a microfiber towel, and wiped away the dust. After doing this, i inspected the finish in the light of the garage, and i find that the swirls are back!!!

They are probably not as bad as when i started, but i feel like i have to start over to get back to the desired affect of a swirl-less finish. To me, i figured the original swirls had built up over the 6 years and that it would take quite a long time to get back to the state of swirls. I never thought they would re-appear this easily.

My question to all of you experts is this:

1. Am i missing a step in my paint correction process?
2. What is the best way to prevent/protect the finish from swirls re-appearing?
3. Any other suggestions based on what i've described?

Thanks for your help. I've learned so much in the past week, but feel like i had a setback today with my results.

[Mike Phillips]

I completed this a few days ago, and tonight i went to the garage to admire my work, and noticed some dust on the surface. I grabbed my quick detailing spray, and a microfiber towel, and wiped away the dust. After doing this, i inspected the finish in the light of the garage, and i find that the swirls are back!!!



Dang... that couldn't have been any fun...

Did lighting change from where you worked on the car to where you wiped and inspected?





My question to all of you experts is this:

1. Am i missing a step in my paint correction process?
2. What is the best way to prevent/protect the finish from swirls re-appearing?
3. Any other suggestions based on what i've described?



In a nutshell, you either removed them or filled them in and it sounds like you removed the shallow swirls and filled some of the remaining swirls that didn't come out.

NXT is very good at masking defects and the only way to know for sure the swirls were in fact removed would be to inspect by chemically stripping the paint where you worked and then using bright light to see what's what.

One of the things I've been teaching people to do for the entire time I've been posting how-to information on the Internet is to first do a Test Spot and make sure you're getting the results you want and hope for in one small section before going over the entire car.

This would include ensuring the swirls are in fact removed.

Below I'll include a link on how to chemically strip the paint to inspect your results and as for how to move forward, you might want to look at getting a more aggressive product like a compound.

The Pinnacle Advanced Swirl Remover is actually a very good swirl remover, although this terminology is kind of vague here goes, it's a medium strength swirl remover, it's no where near as aggressive as a compound but will tackle what the majority of most enthusiasts detailers are trying to remove.

Another thing to look at is your pad size, you didn't mention what size pads came with the kit but 5.5" diameter pads and thin pads rotate better than larger, thicker pads and this is important for at least the correction step.

How to Mix IPA for Inspecting Correction Results (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/31183-how-mix-ipa-inspecting-correction-results.html)


And these are topical too...

Dual Action Polishers

New - Video: How-To do a "Section Pass" when Machine Polishing with a DA Polisher (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-videos/24074-video-how-do-section-pass-when-machine-buffing.html)

The short how-to guide for using a DA Polisher
How to maximize the ability of the 1st Generation Porter Cable Dual Action Polishers (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/27166-how-maximize-ability-1st-gen-porter-cable-dual-action-polishers.html)

Thin is in... New Lake Country Hydro-Tech Low Profile 5 1/2 x 7/8 Inch Foam Pads (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/28825-thin-new-lake-country-hydro-tech-low-profile-5-1-2-x-7-8-inch-foam-pads.html)



:)

[Mike Phillips]

Oh... since this was your first post to our forum....


Welcome to Autogeek Online! :welcome:



Our goal is to help you be successful working on your car in your garage...


:buffing:

[drmayer]

Thanks for the quick response. The lighting was the same in both instances. If i understand you correctly, i should use the IPA solution after the swirl removal step to check to see that everything was removed. I can give this a try.

Also, assuming that the swirls are properly removed, what are the best things to keep in mind for preventing future swirls?

[kkreit01]

^ What Mike said + ditch the NXT2.0. It will fill/mask minor swirls, and they will be back after it wears off (which will be soon).

After your correction, use a high-quality sealant, and refrain from touching the surface. Leave the dust on there until next wash. It will get dusty the very next day anyway.

[drmayer]

Is a wax needed then after the paint sealant? Also, any particular sealant you can recommend?

Thanks for helping out with these simple questions.

[Mike Phillips]

Is a wax needed then after the paint sealant? Also, any particular sealant you can recommend?

Thanks for helping out with these simple questions.

Car waxes, Paint Sealants and Coatings all do the same type of thing, they coat over the paint and create a layer of protection.

You only need to pick one product from the above 3 categories.


Now some people like to apply a paint sealant first for long lasting protection with the idea being that man-made, synthetic protection ingredients last longer and protect longer, and then apply a wax, generally thought of as something with natural Carnauba in it, for what's referred to as warmth and depth, but that's all personal preference.

A good rule of thumb for most products is to apply two thin coats for,


Uniform coverage
Uniform appearance

Here's a few topical articles...

3-Categories: Waxes, Paint Sealants and Coatings (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/34185-3-categories-waxes-paint-sealants-coatings.html)

How To Choose The Right Wax or Paint Sealant for your Detailing Project (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/23263-how-choose-right-wax-paint-sealant-your-detailing-project.html)

The Final Wipe – Tips for creating a streak-free, show car finish (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/19956-final-wipe.html)

How long will brand x car wax or paint sealant last? (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/30447-how-long-will-brand-x-car-wax-paint-sealant-last.html)

How to break open a coating of wax and remove it by creeping out... (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/28204-how-break-open-coating-wax-remove-creeping-out.html)

Sacrificial Barrier Coating = The purpose of a wax or synthetic paint sealant (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/28566-sacrificial-barrier-coating-purpose-wax-synthetic-paint-sealant.html)



:)

[4everRS]

I have have recently come across this same problem as you drmayer.

In my case, I used the pc with the wolfgang twins. Starting with the cyan hydrotech and the swirl remover. I did the section passes as the video's show covering roughly 3-4 sq ft at a time. Then changed to the tangerine and glaze, repeating the same process. I did NOT use any sealer as I wanted to be able to see the result of the twins before filling in any remaning defects.

Results: Much better than before. I had pretty bad holograming due to a bad body-shop buff job, and it is much better. But there is still hologramming, just much less. I also have some spotting in the clearcoat that was there all along (acid-rain?). It cannot be felt by touch. This did not go away. The spots show up best under the glare of flouresent light, but not as much in the sun (then the hologramming can be seen).

I am wondering if I should try Megs 105 first (w/cyan pad) to try to cut a little more aggressively, then go to the twins and sealer?

[Mike Phillips]

I did the section passes as the video's show covering roughly 3-4 sq ft at a time.


3-4 square feet is too large, especially for removing serious or deeper swirls, scratches or holograms. If you shrink your work area downward you'll increase the abrading ability as you'll be abrading less surface area.

Most articles, companies, etc, state to do s 2' by 2' section and I don't even recommend that large of an area, about 20" squarish, (depending upon the shape of the panel), is good for heavy correction work.




I am wondering if I should try Megs 105 first (w/cyan pad) to try to cut a little more aggressively, then go to the twins and sealer?



M105 will definitely remove paint faster than Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover as it's a LOT more aggressive.

Check out the tips and techniques here,

The short how-to guide for using a DA Polisher
How to maximize the ability of the 1st Generation Porter Cable Dual Action Polishers (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/27166-how-maximize-ability-1st-gen-porter-cable-dual-action-polishers.html)


And even here as some of the tips recommended for working warm/hot weather or direct sunlight will help removing deeper defects like swirls inflicted by a rotary buffer at a body shop.

Tips for working in warm/hot weather or direct sunlight (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tips-techniques-how-articles-interacting-discussion-forums/26961-tips-working-warm-hot-weather-direct-sunlight.html)

Here's an excerpt...




Shrink your work area down to a smaller size...
Anytime a product becomes difficult to work with, one tip you can try is to shrink down the size of your work area. This means you spread the product out over a smaller area and because you're engaging the working film of product over the area more quickly as you move the polisher there's less time for the product to dry.




:)

[4everRS]

Thanks Mike.

I was closer to the 3 sq ft but it is really just an estimate. I will try shrinking my work area.

As far as the spotting under flouresent lighting, the twins really don't seem to do much to this. Am I wasting my time trying to go more aggressive? And, is 105 overkill for this?

I've been told that the only way to ruin paint with a pc is to not have a pad or backing plate on when in use.:xyxthumbs:

[4everRS]

Anyone dealt with these "spots" in the clear? Can't feel them and the best time to see them is under flourescent lighting.

Just don't want to spend hours trying to correct them if it won't happen.

????