off-label use of glaze

[alfadub]

Mike,
Several months ago I remember seeing a video or post detailing an off-label use of glaze on a dried-up, severely neglected paint finish. The glaze was applied and left on overnight to "moisturize" the paint and facilitate correction of the paint defects. I forgot if the glaze was applied by machine or just by hand.
Would you be able to provide a link to that post or video?
Thanks!

[TornadoRed]

Was it this one?
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/25304-secret-removing-oxidation-restoring-show-car-finish-antique-single-stage-paints.html

[alfadub]

Yes, I think that's the one. Thank you!

I have a few more questions about this technique:
-Is this technique effective only on single-stage paints? Would it be completely ineffective in a paint with a clearcoat?
-Is Meguiar's Mirror Glaze #7 Show Car Glaze the only product that you would use for this technique, or would any other glaze sold by autogeek also be effective?

[Kristopher1129]

IMO leaving Megs #7 sitting on clear coated paint over night would be useless. It simply won't penetrate clear coat.

The reason it works on single stage paint, is because it's straight paint. The oils can seep in, and spread naturally.

I highly doubt it's the ONLY product you can use to do this. But, I would say without a doubt, it's probably the best. There's quite a history with that Mirror Glaze. It goes waaaaay back to the days where single stage was the only option for paint. It worked then, and it works now the same exact way. There's gotta be a reason for that.

[Dr Oldz]

No7 is the only one with those oils in it that I am aware of(an old megs formula from way back). As far as application, I would recommend a good quality terrycloth towel by hand. For some reason it works better on single stage paint. No7 is really an amazing product on SS paints... I buy it by the half gallon.

[Mike Phillips]

I have a few more questions about this technique:
-Is this technique effective only on single-stage paints? Would it be completely ineffective in a paint with a clearcoat?
[quote]

In my opinion "yes". Besides the reason Kristopher points out below the resins used are different and thus react differently. Old school single stage paints really like the oils found in the #7 as well as the #3, #5, #9, #80, #81

#81 Hand Polish is a modern version of #7 Show Car Glaze, it's not as rich in polishing oils like the #7 but confidence is high that it does contain some level of these oils.

From this thread,

Some Vintage Meguiar's Products from my Collection (Lots of pictures) (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/24271-some-vintage-meguiar-s-products-my-collection-lots-pictures.html)


[quote=Mike Phillips]

M07 Sealer Reseal Glaze --> Show Car Glaze
I posted these pictures recently to another related thread and thought I would share them here just to give people reading this a picture or anchor in their mind as to just how old the M07 formula is, it's been around since the Model-T. The glass bottle is post-WWII, a glass bottle with the Mirror Bright wording on the label would be pre-WWII

Sometimes I remind people that these products were around before plastic was invented, thus the glass bottles. The "cylinder" bottle you see below, just to the right of the glass bottle was the first plastic bottles to be introduced I think in the late 1950's, maybe early 1960's.
The third bottle from the left is a clear plastic bottle when they switched to the current style of bottles and is from the 1970's

The 4th bottle from the right shows when they changed the name from Sealer Reseal Glaze to Show Car Glaze primarily because as our lingo changed in the car appearance world, people were confusing "Sealer" with "Sealant" and M07 is water-soluble, hopefully everyone reading this can see why that kind of confusion could be a problem in the enthusiast or consumer market.

http://www.showcargarage.com/gallery/files/1/800_M07Collection.jpg



M05 New Car Glaze
M05 came out in the late 1950's after acrylic lacquer was introduced. The name has caused a lot of confusion over the decades because the name says "New Car" and people with brand new cars no matter what the era think this means it's a product for their car. Fact is, it came out as a product originally specific to single stage paints. It is like M07 except that it dries very fast and turns white when it dries whereas M07 doesn't really dry and remains clearish. M05 is also very powdery as you remove the residue. It is able to give you M07 results but easier to remove in a high-humidity climate due to the drying characteristic.

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/717/M05NewCarGlaze001.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/717/M05NewCarGlaze002.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/717/M05NewCarGlaze003.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/717/M05NewCarGlaze004.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/717/M05NewCarGlaze005.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/717/M05NewCarGlaze006.jpg


M03 Machine Glaze
This is a "Green Label" version of M03 Machine Glaze, I don't know much about the Green Label version except that the label and the lid are green while most bottles were the standard black colors.

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/717/M03GreenLabel001.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/717/M03GreenLabel002.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/717/M03GreenLabel003.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/717/M03GreenLabel004.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/717/M03GreenLabel005.jpg


M03 Machine Glaze in the Cylinder Bottle, probably from the 1960's or 1970's.
I was told that cylinder bottles were chosen because the could be easily slipped into a apron pocket in the professional side of the industry...
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/450_MGM3_001.jpg
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/450_MGM3_002.jpg






-Is Meguiar's Mirror Glaze #7 Show Car Glaze the only product that you would use for this technique, or would any other glaze sold by autogeek also be effective?


There are other products with oils in them, I'm not sure any have the long-time history the pure polishes Meguiar's polishes have. The oils found in their pure polishes are trade secrets. I know a little bit about them but I'm not posting publicly what I know. These product have been around since car paint was invented, most modern products don't have that credential. I'm not a chemist but I think most modern polishes use oils like mineral oil for their lubricating needs, the oils in products like #7 are much different. A chemist friend of mine told me once that these oils offer a beauty aspect in that they bring out the full richness of color of a single stage paint differently than other products on the market.





IMO leaving Megs #7 sitting on clear coated paint over night would be useless. It simply won't penetrate clear coat.


I agree and even if it did it's not the same action you're looking for... clear paint is made of a very different resin technology than old single stage paints. The when working on clear coats is to make them as clear and smooth as possible. By making the clear layer clear you can see the color coat underneath. By making the clear layer smooth you maximize gloss, those are really the two primary goals for taking a clear coat finish to its maximum potential.





The reason it works on single stage paint, is because it's straight paint. The oils can seep in, and spread naturally.


Correctamundo....

Meguiar's has taught that their pure polishes feed the paint for decades, at least for most of their history but no one at Meguiar's ever explained exactly what this means...

Here's one of my attempts from this article...

The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/25304-secret-removing-oxidation-restoring-show-car-finish-antique-single-stage-paints.html)



This is key...[/B]
Saturation Application --> The First Application
This is a mostly unknown technique and that is to let the first application penetrate and soak into the paint for up to 24 hours before wiping the product off. The idea being to really apply the product wet and work it in really well and the walk away.

The idea is to allow the heavy concentration of oils to penetrate and seep into the paint for maximum saturation before removing the product and continuing with the process. In this case I finished applying the first application of #7 around 9:00 pm and then left the #7 to soak in until the next day. I started wiping the product off then next morning right about 10:00am.

Some will argue if this works or not buy my experience is that with a porous single stage paint it does in fact help. One thing for sure it can't hurt.

Paper Test for Capillary Action
If you place a few drops of #7 onto a piece of paper and then monitor it over a few days you will see the oils in the #7 migrate or seep away from the actual drop of product. It does this through capillary action and the same thing can work to your car's paints' advantage if it's a single stage lacquer or enamel paint.

I placed a few drops about the size of a nickel on a piece of standard printer paper around 3:00pm.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/859/7CapillaryAction01.jpg

The next day I took these pictures at approximately 10:00am, (19 hours later), note how the oils in the drops of #7 have migrated outward via capillary action.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/859/7CapillaryAction02.jpg

Feeder Oils penetrate or feed the paint
This same effect can take place in a single stage paint but not only will the oils travel horizontally, they will also travel vertically, that they will penetrate downward "into" your car's paint and this is where the term feeder oils comes from as the oils penetrate into or feed the paint. The result is they will condition the paint restoring some level of workability as compared to just working on old dry paint, and they will also bring out the full richness of color, something that will showcase the beauty of your car's paint.






The above article can also be found published on AutoTraderClassic.com

AutoTraderClassics.com - Restoring Single Stage Paint: Part 1 (http://www.autotraderclassics.com/car-article/Restoring+Single+Stage+Paint%3A+Part+1-65310.xhtml?conversationId=21363)

AutoTraderClassics.com - Restoring Single Stage Paint: Part 2 (http://www.autotraderclassics.com/car-article/Restoring+Single+Stage+Paint%3A+Part+2-65407.xhtml?conversationId=21363)

AutoTraderClassics.com - Restoring Single Stage Paint: Part 3 (http://www.autotraderclassics.com/car-article/Restoring+Single+Stage+Paint%3A+Part+3-65429.xhtml?conversationId=21363)

AutoTraderClassics.com - Restoring Single Stage Paint: Part 4 (http://www.autotraderclassics.com/car-article/Restoring+Single+Stage+Paint%3A+Part+4-65430.xhtml?conversationId=21363)

AutoTraderClassics.com - Restoring Single Stage Paint: Part 5 (http://www.autotraderclassics.com/car-article/Restoring+Single+Stage+Paint%3A+Part+5-65431.xhtml?conversationId=21363)

AutoTraderClassics.com - Restoring Single Stage Paint: Part 6 (http://www.autotraderclassics.com/car-article/Restoring+Single+Stage+Paint%3A+Part+6-65432.xhtml?conversationId=21363)

AutoTraderClassics.com - Restoring Single Stage Paint: Part 7 (http://www.autotraderclassics.com/car-article/Restoring+Single+Stage+Paint%3A+Part+7-65434.xhtml?conversationId=21363)





I highly doubt it's the ONLY product you can use to do this. But, I would say without a doubt, it's probably the best. There's quite a history with that Mirror Glaze. It goes waaaaay back to the days where single stage was the only option for paint. It worked then, and it works now the same exact way. There's gotta be a reason for that.


When cars were first invented they used the same coatings used on furniture to coat the wood parts of cars so the wood would not rot and the metal parts so they would not rust, this included,

Shellac, Varnish, and Nitrocellulose Lacquer paint... the "Automobile" was a new thing, so there were not dedicated "Automobile Paint Manufactures" in the beginning, that industry came into existence after the fact.

That's why in the early days, people would take their Furniture Cleaner and Furniture Polish out of the house and into the driveway to work on the Model T, it had the same coatings the furniture in the house had...

Old Furniture Polish and Cleaner
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2furniturecleanerandpolish.jpg






No7 is the only one with those oils in it that I am aware of(an old megs formula from way back).


Actually many of the paint care products have these polishing oils or some version of them...

Products that are "rich" in these original trade secret oils would include,

#3, #5, #7, #9, #17, M80, M81, I've been told even some of the modern products contain polishing oils but I don't know how exact they are to these early type... but that would include products like M82, M83, M205, M105, M95, and probably products in the Consumer Line, like Ultimate Polish, etc.

Polishing oils can work to,


Add gloss
Restore and increase clarity
Bring out the full richness of color
Lubricate the surface
Buffer or cushion the abrading process
Provide a "type" of protection for single stage paints


That's off the top of my head but probably most of the major benefits...

M80 contains diminishing abrasives and I've referred to it as #7 on steroids because unlike #7 it has the ability to abrade the paint while at the same time gorge it with the TS Oils. This can be handy when trying to restore an older, oxidized single stage finish.



As far as application, I would recommend a good quality terrycloth towel by hand. For some reason it works better on single stage paint. No7 is really an amazing product on SS paints... I buy it by the half gallon.


Match your application "material" to the task at hand... sometimes a clean, soft foam applicator pad would be best sometimes terry cloth... see this article,

Factors that affect how aggressive or non-aggressive a product is... (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/28458-factors-affect-how-aggressive-non-aggressive-product.html)


:)

[Dr Oldz]

Great info!! Thanks, Mike!

[Kristopher1129]

Mike, I think I read that thread at least 3 times over, haha. One of my favs!

[Rei86]

One of my favorite write ups on this forum!

And thanks again Mike for adding even more info.