Water Stains

[Freddie]

Hey Guys,

I'm trying to figure out how to remove water stains from the finish on my car, but more importantly, how to prevent them. I'll get them after it rains, after I wash the car, and basically, any time water touches it.

Brand new car, brand new finish, and the first thing I did within 24 hours of getting the car was waxed it with Pinnacle Souveran paste wax, so I figured water stains would be the least of my worries.

Also, I've used several different microfiber and terry wash and dry cloths, and I've yet to find one that doesn't leave a swirl mark or two in the finish.

Any insight or help would be greatly appreciated.

[zliegen]

Its the reason why I don't use most carnauba waxes any more, it makes them even worse. I don't seem to get them when I use sealants, the water seems to evaporate and not leave spots behind.. I have no idea why it happens like this, but it's the reason why I use only UPGP now on my own car. God, I hate water spots, it's a constant battle!

Edit:
Regarding the swirls, I doubt that its your microfiber towels scratching the paint, its the stuff that you're wiping across the paint when you use them. Sounds like you have soft clearcoat. Try dabbing instead of wiping when you do the initial drying, and then misting some quick detailer before you wipe a drying towel on your paint to finish the drying process.

[Freddie]

Would a filtration system like this reduce the stains:

Deluxe Clean Water Filter Kit, 2 step water filter system, water filter for car washing, inline hose filter (http://www.autogeek.net/deluxe-filter-system.html)

I'm almost tempted to just head to the local handwash and pay to use their water and spot-free rinse.

[SeaJay's]

it would probably help when you wash. I've honestly never had a huge problem with water spots or staining.

[Mike Phillips]

Hey Guys,

I'm trying to figure out how to remove water stains from the finish on my car,



There are different types of water stains, etchings or spots... while you don't want any type of water stain on the paint the worst type are the Type II Water Spots where whatever the corrossive elements were in the water, or in the air, or on your paint and then mixed in with the water, actually etch a crater into the paint.

Check the below and see if any of the descriptions match what you see in your car's paint...


Water Spots - Type I, Type II, Type III
Water Spots are more complex than most people assume because there are different types of water spots. Some water spots are merely mineral deposits on the surface left behind after water with minerals has evaporated off the surface. These deposits can often be washed off the paint using a quality car wash soap. Sometimes these deposits can also leave an imprint in the paint in the perimeter of the spot and in these cases the imprint must be removed using a compound or paint cleaner as it's a defect in the paint, not simply a deposit on the paint. Some sources of water, be it rain with air-borne pollution mixed-in, or sprinkler water from a city water supply or well water, can have corrosive enough elements in it that it will actually eat into or etch the paint leaving a depression or crater in the paint where the water dwelled or dried. This is a Type II water spot and it can only be removed by leveling the surrounding paint by hand or machine with some type of abrasive compound or paint cleaner. Type III Water Spots are primarily a stain in the paint which looks like fading where water pooled and then dwelled for some measure of time. This primarily happens to single stage paints which tend to be more porous and thus will absorb water into itself. If Type III Water Spots are limited to only the upper surface of the paint then they can be removed by abrading the paint by hand or machine with a compound or polish.

Before attempting to remove water spots it is important to first diagnose which type of water spot is affecting your car's paint.

Tracers Tracers - RIDS - Pigtails - Cobweb Swirls - Rotary Buffer Swirls - Holograms - Water Spots - Bird Drooping Etchings - Micro-Marring (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/22234-tracers-rids-pigtails-cobweb-swirls-rotary-buffer-swirls-holograms-water-spots-bird-droping-etchings-micro-marring.html)

Excerpt...




Type I Water Spots
Type I Water Spots are primarily a mineral or dirt deposit laying on the surface of paint. Type I Water Spots can be the results of minerals suspended in city water or well water that are left behind after the water evaporates off the finish. This can happen by washing a car but not drying the water off the paint or if a sprinkler goes off next to the car covering the car with water drop that are not dried off the paint. Type I Water Spots can also be dirt or pollution particles left behind after water from rain or inclement weather evaporates of the finish. Type I Water Spots can also be Type II Water Spots in that the water can leave both a deposit on the surface and an etching in the finish.


Type II Water Spots
Type II Water Spots are actual etchings or craters in the paint because something corrosive in a water source has landed on the paint and was not removed before a portion of the paint was eaten or dissolved by the corrosive substance.

Type III Water Spots
Type III Water Spots are spots that look faded or dull and are found primarily found on single stage paints after a water source lands on and then pools on the paint and is usually left to dwell on the surface for some measure of time before it evaporates or is wiped-off the surface.




:)

[Mike Phillips]

How To Remove Sprinkler Water Spots (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/31000-how-remove-sprinkler-water-spots.html)


How To Remove Sprinkler Water Spots using The Least Aggressive Method Approach

This is a nasty problem that usually happens after you've just washed and waxed your favorite ride... and unaware you've parked next to a sprinkler. Then when you return to your car....

Sprinkler Water Spots!
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsM001.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsM002.jpg


Luckily they're only on half the car...
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsM003.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsM004.jpg


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsM005.jpg



The question is, are they Type I or Type II Water Spots? Let's hope they're Type I and will wipe-off or wash off, if they're Type II Water Spots we'll have to use some type of abrasive compound or polish to level the paint surface in order to remove the spots.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsM006.jpg


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsM007.jpg



We've pulled the Mercedes-Benz into our studio where we can work out of direct sunlight on a cool surface.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsM008.jpg


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsM009.jpg


The terms Hard Water or Hard Water Spots are commonly used to describe these types of spots on the surface of the paint. What's actually making up the spots are minerals and other substances dissolved in the water. After the water evaporates off the paint, the minerals, (the components referred to with the word hard in the terms Hard Water or Hard Water Spots), remain behind.

Our hope is that these spots are simply a topical defect and not a sub-surface or below surface defect. You will find out by simply washing and drying the car or wiping the panels clean using a clean, soft microfiber towel.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsM010.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsM011.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsM012.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsM013.jpg



When following the approach of using the least aggressive product to get the job done, the first thing you want to do is to see if you can either wipe the sprinkler water spots off or wash the sprinkler water spots off. Since this car was recently washed and waxed and it's kept inside a garage when not being driven, we're going to try to wipe them off using a spray detailer with a clean, plush microfiber towel.


When removing fresh water spots, use your spray detailer heavy, or wet. Using a product heavy or wet means using extra product, more than you might normally use. The reason for his is you want lots of lubrication on the surface to help prevent any potential scratching or marring of the finish as you're wiping.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsM014.jpg


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsM015.jpg


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsM016.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsM017.jpg



http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsM018.jpg


Remember, always fold your microfiber towels 4 ways to give you 8 wiping sides with plenty of cushion to spread out the pressure from your hand and wipe the paint gently.

Start out by spreading the spray detailer around to one section and then flip or fold your microfiber towel to a fresh or clean portion to remove the residue and buff to a dry, high shine.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsM019.jpg


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsM020.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsM021.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsM022.jpg


Luck is with us... the paint is safe as the Sprinkler Water Spots did not etching into the paint and using plenty of spray detailer and a clean plush microfiber towel left a scratch-free finish.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsM023.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsM024.jpg


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsM025.jpg


:)

[Mike Phillips]

More pictures of water spots and remedies...

Just by chance, there's a rental car in the parking lot which also has water spots all over the finish.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsS001.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsS002.jpg


These water spots look like they're established water spots, that every time it rains, or a sprinkler goes off, the water pools in the same place giving any corrosive substances repeated opportunity to etch into the paint.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsS003.jpg


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsS004.jpg



Visually, I can tell the paint is likely etched in this instance but I won't know till I get the surface clean. The first step is to wash or wipe the finish, in this instance I'm going to repeat wiping process I used on the Mercedes-Benz with a spray detailer.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsS006.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsS007.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsS008.jpg


After wiping the paint clean, there are water spot imprints remaining in the paint.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/WaterSpotImprints01.jpg


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/WaterSpotImprints02.jpg



http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/WaterSpotImprints03.jpg




To remove these and use the least aggressive product to get the job done I'm going to use a light paint cleaner with a microfiber applicator pad to gentle clean the paint.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsS009.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsS010.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsS011.jpg



If you want to take some of the work out of the cleaning step as an option you can use a machine polisher to apply and work the paint cleaner, this can save a lot of elbow grease and speed up the process especially if the water spots are over the entire car.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsS012.jpg



If you opt to machine apply the paint cleaner and you're starting with a clean, dry pad, be sure to prime the pad by spreading the paint cleaner over the entire face of the pad, by doing this 100% of the face of the pad will be working for you from the very first moment you turn the polisher on and begin buffing.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsS013.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsS014.jpg



Remove the paint cleaner residue by wiping gently using a fresh, clean microfiber towel and then apply a coat of wax or paint sealant as the paint cleaner will effectively remove everything off the surface including any previously applied wax or paint sealant.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsS015.jpg


In keeping with the philosophy of using the least aggressive product to get the job done, if washing or wiping the paint doesn't remove the water spots the next step would be using a light paint cleaner. If the light paint cleaner didn't work you could then test a light finishing polish and if that wasn't working fast enough and/or effectively enough then you could try a more aggressive product. The goal being to remove the water spots using the least aggressive product and by doing so leaving the most amount of paint on the body panels to last over the service life of the car.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsS016.jpg


Water Spots and Sprinkler Water Spots Successfully Removed
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsS017.jpg



One bit of advice... try to avoid parking near sprinklers when their placement is known... in the example of the Mercedes-Benz, the water spots simply wiped off; I have seen instances of Sprinkler Water Spots that have etched round craters into clear coat paints and removing these Type II Water Spots can be not only time consuming but it will require you to remove a measurable amount of the clear layer in order to completely remove the spots.


:)

[Mike Phillips]

And this all goes back the the age-old dilemma over waxes and paint sealants that bead water versus allow water to lay flat.

Time has shown the masses will only buy waxes and paint sealants that bead water as this is the indicator of "protection", no beading, no protection.

It's also the indicator of lasting characteristics. If the water beads up for a long time the wax or paint sealant is lasting a long time, thus if a wax or sealant doesn't bead water for a long time it's said to not last very long.

Water Beading looks cool, but it can lead to water spotting...


:)

[Freddie]

Thanks for that uber-detailed response, Mike.

Unfortunately, it appears that I have the spots displayed on the red car.

I was able to pull some off the surface with a microfiber towel and some spray cleaner / polish, but it took a lot of elbow work, so this weekend, I'm going to grab the Porter Cable, some paint cleaner, and go to work on them.

Since I'm using a machine and paint cleaner, I'm assuming that I should work off the 2-3 setting on the Porter Cable, or should it be higher?

Also, anything I can do to prevent this in the future? For instance, as I noted above, will taking the car to the local self-wash and using the spot-free rinse reduce the spots or eliminate them all together?

[LegacyGT]

I would bump the pc to 4-5 for paint cleaner.