Cleaning the new DA MF pads

[Tom Weed]

Hello everyone,
I have a question for the people who have experience with the new DA MF pads, my question is this: Since I don't have an air compressor and I know I can use a brush on the fly to clean the pads while buffing, can I use my PadWasher 2000 on the rotary after a few panels? Does saturating the pad have a negative effect while it's still in use, like say the LC Hydro pads due to the deterioration of the pad or making the pads less effective? My guess is no, but thought I should ask someone with experience with these... This may have also been addressed someone else, but the threads are pretty large.

Thanks all,

Tom

[Rhudeboye]

The Man Dog Rule the daily murph (http://thedailymurph.com/?p=75)

[Tom Weed]

lol, you wouldn't be the first to point that out, but we got two of them and they are neat little dogs, it was the gf's idea, but I've grown fond of them and they are easy to clean up after!

[Tom Weed]

That really didn't help my answer I was looking for, but I did get a good laugh out of it and yes, I've heard it time and time again about those little guys...

[Meghan]

Tom good question, let me ask Mike and see what he has to say, he is the one around the office that has been messing around the most with them.

[WRAPT C5Z06]

According to Michael Stoops, you don't NEED an air compressor, it's just a good option. He said as long as you brush the pads after each section, you should be fine and only 2 pads would probably finish a whole car.

[Mike Phillips]

can I use my PadWasher 2000 on the rotary after a few panels?


Good News and Less Than Good News..

Good News = The cutting discs seem to clean pretty well if you put them on a rotary buffer and use the System 2000 Pad Washer. Experience tells me that's because compounds tend to be more water soluble and thus it's easier for the soap solution to emulsify and remove the excess product out of the fibers, (or foam or wool depending upon the pad type).

Less than Good News = The finishing discs don't clean clean very well in either types of pad washers and my guess is because "waxes" and "paint sealants", things that are not water-soluble, don't emulsify and break-down very easily in water or water and soap solutions.

The topic of getting waxes and paint sealants out of buffing pads or even hand applicator pads comes up often and applies to your line of questioning.




Cleaning Pads (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/26379-cleaning-pads.html)

Here's my input...


Just to note... everyone wants a wax or paint sealant to last a long time right?

In order for a wax or a paint sealant to last a long time you would think it would need to be water-resistant correct? That is it won't simply wash off in a rainstorm or wash off the first time you wash your car... correct?

Point being is most compounds and polishes will wash out of buffing pads pretty easily; anything that is supposed to last a long time... you're going to have to work at it a little more to get it to "wash" out of the pad.

Most body shop approved compounds and polishes are going to be wax and silicone free or another way of referring to them would be water soluble, that is they will break down in water and will especially break down in water with some type of soap or cleaning chemical. Waxes and paint sealants by default should be water insoluble, that is they won't break down easily in water but will with some work with water and some type of soap and/or cleaning chemical. Make sense?


Here's a tip...
If you're washing pads in a bucket, wash your compound and polishing pads first, then wash any pads with waxes and paint sealants in them, this will keep your wash water cleaner or less adulterated with substances that don't break down easily in water which will make cleaning multiple compounding and polishing pads less messy.


Also for what it's worth, if you're machine applying waxes or paint sealants you shouldn't be using so much product that your pads are getting saturated to the point that they need washing, if you find your pads getting saturated then maybe cut down on the amount of product you're using.

The exception would be if you're using a cleaner/wax by machine because then you're using the cleaner/wax like a compound or polish, that is you're suing it heavy or wet and thus you'll tend and trend to saturate our pads.








Does saturating the pad have a negative effect while it's still in use,


Yes. You want your pads to be as free of liquid as possible for optimum results no matter what the pad type.

:)

[Michael Stoops]

Good News = The cutting discs seem to clean pretty well if you put them on a rotary buffer and use the System 2000 Pad Washer. Experience tells me that's because compounds tend to be more water soluble and thus it's easier for the soap solution to emulsify and remove the excess product out of the fibers, (or foam or wool depending upon the pad type).

Less than Good News = The finishing discs don't clean clean very well in either types of pad washers and my guess is because "waxes" and "paint sealants", things that are not water-soluble, don't emulsify and break-down very easily in water or water and soap solutions.


What Mike says here, and the reasons behind the comments, is spot on (but nobody is surprised about that!). The good part about the Less than Good News part is that you don't need to clean the Finishing Discs on the fly anywhere near as often as you do the Cutting Discs. While the Cutting Discs should be cleaned after every section pass, the Finishing Discs need only be cleaned a couple of times during application of the Finishing Wax. Using a brush is a great alternative to compressed air, and a pad washer works great as well. Of course, at the end of the project all the discs are going into the washer and dryer anyway.

We also know that using the pad washer with plain water does not only an outstanding job of cleaning the Cutting Discs (and you can do it right on the D/A too) but adding that bit of water into the mix has no negative impact on the compounding process. So, use a brush after every section pass, and then maybe hit it with the pad washer after every couple of panels. If you want to play it super safe, use your first Cutting Disc, brushing clean every section pass and with the pad washer after a couple of panels, then set it aside to further dry while using your second Cutting Disc for the next couple of panels. still brush it clean after every section pass, but then run it through the pad washer after a couple of panels and swap back over to your first Cutting Disc. Continue alternating this way and your discs will always be clean, they won't become overly wetted with water, and you'll still just use two Cutting Discs.

If you don't have a pad washer just make sure to keep them brushed out regularly. If ever in doubt about overall cleanliness of the pad, switch to a fresh one. Most critically, do NOT overuse the product!!!

[Mike Phillips]

Just by chance I have some microfiber discs that need cleaning as well as a few foam pads from the Challenger buff-out last night...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/749/CleanMFpads001.jpg


And both a Grit Guard Universal Pad Washer and a System 2000 Pad Wash in a two bucket dolly system.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/749/CleanMFpads002.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/749/CleanMFpads003.jpg


Here's a Flex 3403 with a dirty 5" Backing Plate and a 5" Cutting Disc
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/749/CleanMFpads004.jpg


The compound is a pinkish color...
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/749/CleanMFpads005.jpg


Running the rotary buffer inside the pad washer...
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/749/CleanMFpads006.jpg


Pretty clean except the center of the pad doesn't get as much attention due to the placement of the Gray Water Pump Wheel.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/749/CleanMFpads007.jpg


Here's a dirty 5" finishing disc...
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/749/CleanMFpads008.jpg


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/749/CleanMFpads010.jpg


It's cleaner, but it will take a few more minutes of running the pad against the cleaning wheels to get it cleaner.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/749/CleanMFpads011.jpg


If anyone is wondering if they can use a DA Polisher to clean a pad in a System 2000 Pad Cleaner it just doesn't work because the housing for the Free Floating Spindle Assembly runs into the edge of the inner side of the splash cover. Also, even when you make contact with the face of the pad against the Gray Water Pump Wheel it just doesn't spin it like a rotary buffer.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/749/CleanMFpads012.jpg


Here's some pictures showing the cleaning ability of the Grit Guard Universal Pad Washer...

Cutting disc that's dirty with D300 Compound...
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/749/CleanMFpads013.jpg


Pretty clean after cleaning in the Grit Guard Pad Washer...
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/749/CleanMFpads014.jpg


Finishing disc dirty with D301...
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/749/CleanMFpads015.jpg


Cleaner and the fibers are fluffed up...
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/749/CleanMFpads016.jpg


I buffed out the black 1972 Challenger using foam polishing pads, lets see how they clean up...
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/749/CleanMFpads017.jpg


This pad has "Spent Compound" and "Removed Paint" (that's two things that need to be removed)
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/749/CleanMFpads018.jpg

Pretty clean..
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/749/CleanMFpads019.jpg

[Mike Phillips]

The good part about the Less than Good News part is that you don't need to clean the Finishing Discs on the fly anywhere near as often as you do the Cutting Discs.


Just to add... the reason for this is because whenever you're abrading paint you're going to have two things building up on the pad

Spent product or product residue - in this case compound residue
Removed paint - If you're buffing on a clear coated car you won't see the removed paint because it's clear. With a single stage paint you'll see the color of the paint building up on the pad like you see in the pictures above because the paint on the 1972 Challenger is single stage black paint.





While the Cutting Discs should be cleaned after every section pass, the Finishing Discs need only be cleaned a couple of times during application of the Finishing Wax.



Used correctly, you're only applying a thin coating of wax so you shouldn't be getting a build-up of product and since you're not aggressively abrading paint you won't have any substantial 'removed paint' building up on the finishing disc.


:)

[Tom Weed]

Wow, now that's an answer! First off, Thank you Megan for making Mike P. aware of the post, second thanks 07 z-oh-6 for the reply.
Big thanks to you to Mike P. and Mike S. for the detailed answers, that pretty much answers my questions. I was given idea by another forum memeber about not needing an air compressor that something less powerful would work to clean the pads. I have a 6.5 hp shopvac with a small blower tip for blowing up rafts and such, it's definately worth a shot! When I get the system and need to clean the pads, I will give an update to see if this worked or not.

Thanks again everyone!

Tom

[Mike Phillips]

I'd just like to add...

I don't think Meguiar's recommends cleaning their Microfiber discs using a rotary buffer and a pad washer and I don't, or at least I haven't in the past, cleaned any of my microfiber discs in this manner.

I did so today as a way of testing to see if it would work for this thread. It could be Jason and his team have tried this and found it to be too aggressive for the longevity of the pads and this would be my guess, in other words, it's probably not a good idea to clean these pads using a rotary buffer and for the record these new microfiber discs are not for use via rotary buffer for correction work.

I basically had some dirty pads, some pad washers, a rotary buffer and a camera and with the sole intent of answering Tom's question and in the spirit of trying new ideas... did this little test and took and posted the pictures.

I just want to make sure that no one mistakes my post as any kind of official or un-official recommendation for cleaning microfiber discs using a rotary buffer.


That's all...

:)

[Meghan]

Wow, now that's an answer! First off, Thank you Megan for making Mike P. aware of the post, second thanks 07 z-oh-6 for the reply.
Big thanks to you to Mike P. and Mike S. for the detailed answers, that pretty much answers my questions. I was given idea by another forum memeber about not needing an air compressor that something less powerful would work to clean the pads. I have a 6.5 hp shopvac with a small blower tip for blowing up rafts and such, it's definately worth a shot! When I get the system and need to clean the pads, I will give an update to see if this worked or not.

Thanks again everyone!

Tom

Tom no problem I am just glad that we are able to have two of the best Meguiars Mike"s" to help answer this question for. Thank you Stoops for jumping in and assisting Phillips on this one. We appreciate all of our vendor support.

[Joe@Superior Shine]

POP QUIZ: How do you clean MF pads if your a mobile detailer, no pad washer, no air compressor?

[Klink10]

POP QUIZ: How do you clean MF pads if your a mobile detailer, no pad washer, no air compressor?

Answer: Have more than 1?