Arms falling off - need help

[dcove]

I have been doing pretty well detailing but there has to be better, quicker more efficient way of getting the same results I do now. So lets say I am detailing a car with traditional swirl marks, rain spots etc....
So, I use my Porter Cable 7424 with the orange pad so spread and buff the finish. I then have to rub prettty hard with a terry cloth towel to get the residue off. Then I have to rub pretty hard to get the rest off with micro-fiber cloths. Then I finally buff with a micro-fiber bonnet over a wool leveling pad. All the rubbing leaves my arms hanging after de-swirling the whole car, then I need to repeat this all for the glaze, then the finisher ? By the third time of doing this to the car I have no more preasure left in my arms to wipe off the residue by hand.
There has to be a better way, maybe it is screw the hand rubbing and use a rotary buffer as opposed to the PC ?

[SeaJay's]

Trying spraying the sections down with some IPA after your done buffing. Makes removing the residue much easier and will save your arms!

[Setec Astronomy]

Sounds to me like you're using too much product. What products do you usually use?

[Mike Phillips]

Firs, since this was your first post...

Welcome to Autogeek Online! :welcome:




How large of an area are you working at one time?
Are you buffing to a dry buff or leaving a wet film on?
Are you wiping the product off immediately after buffing or letting it dry and moving on to a new section
Are you cleaning your pad often?



1. Only work a small section at a time, most recommendations for size by most people state 2' by 2' and that works for light polishing, but for correction work you really want to shrink this down to about 20" by 20" or so depending upon how deep the defects are you're trying to remove and how hard or soft the paint is. Each car is different so you have to gauge by experience.

2. Most correction product should not be buffed to a dry buff as you lose lubrication and risk marring the finish, stop just before you go to a dry buff and this means the product or film on the surface is still wet and it will be much easier to wipe off.

3. See answer #2 above

4. Cleaning your pad often is part of "Working Clean" but it also helps prevent product from gumming up on the surface.



Here's an article I wrote on using the PC that is very detailed, I don't think it leaves any topic un-touched... it's a bit of a read but that's because it's in-depth and detailed...

The Definitive How-To Article for Removing Swirls, Scratches and Water Spots Using a Porter Cable 7424XP, G110v2 or Griot's Garage Polisher (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/20021-definitive-how-article-removing-swirls-scratches-water-spots-using-porter-cable-7424xp-g110v2-griot-s-garage-polisher.html) - Includes Videos


Maybe give it a read-through...


:)

[tuscarora dave]

Sounds to me like you're using too much product. What products do you usually use?

My thoughts exactly. This is just tough work. The term "work smarter not harder" will be the best thing to always keep in mind when doing this work so it's good that you are posting such questions. I am going on day 6 of this stuff without a weekend so I understand what you mean when you say that your arms are falling off.

I would suggest that you work your product longer or use less product. Work it until it is "nearly" invisible or as suggested above use some sort of aid in removing the residue such as ONR 20 to 1 with water mixture. This will be less expensive than using IPA and will serve to lubricate the surface when wiping your product residue off of the panel that you are working on. Also some products wipe off harder than others so you may want to explore other products.

Using a rotary will definitely shave a lot of time off of jobs but no matter how good you get with it there is always a greater risk of making costly mistakes with a rotary. This is where a beater car to practice on will pay off.

I have heard a lot of buzz lately on how effective the Surbuff Microfingers pads are at paint correction with a PC, maybe you could try them to cut some time off of your jobs.

Lastly, I never do something by hand if I have a machine that will do it for me and on my off time I try not to over use my arms for anything. As an example if I am seeing a great band on a Friday night, I do not clap my hands after each song. That last statement may sound silly but it really can make the difference between your arms hurting and your arms falling off. Mind over matter usually is the best I can do considering that I do this stuff as a living. Good luck and hang in there.

[Mike Phillips]

For reference, everyone needs to find a system that works best for them so this is for reference... it can be found in my list of articles under Dual Action Polishers
How much product do I use with my DA Polisher? (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/26962-how-much-product-do-i-use-my-da-polisher.html)


Use an "ample" amount of product
When I say use an ample amount of product this means don’t use too much product and don’t use to little product.

From The Free Dictionary.com

am·ple
adjective

1. Of large or great size, amount, extent, or capacity: an ample living room.

2.
a. Large in degree, kind, or quantity: an ample reward.
b. More than enough: ample evidence.

3. Fully sufficient to meet a need or purpose: had ample food for the party.


Out of the above definitions, I'm using the 3rd definition.

Using too much product
If you use too much you can hyper-lubricate the surface and this will make it more difficult for the abrasives to abrade the surface as they’ll tend to want to glide or slip over the surface instead of bite into the surface.

Using too little product
If you use too little product there won’t be enough lubrication to enable the buffing pad to rotate and thus engage the abrasives against the surface so they can bite into and remove small particles of paint.
You want an AMPLE amount of product when first starting out because you pad is dry and some of the product is going to seep into the pad leaving less on the surface to LUBRICATE and ABRADE the paint.

Another option is to use a Pad Conditioner to lubricate and condition the surface of a dry pad, this will improve the buffing cycle and provide protection to the paint surface to help prevent micro-marring.

XMT Polishing Pad Conditioner (http://www.autogeek.net/xmt--pad-conditioner.html)



Cut down on the amount of product AFTER pad is broken-in...
After your pad is broken in with product, clean your pad after each section pass and when you apply fresh product you can cut down on the amount of product you actually apply to the face of your pad.

Some people will recommend 3 to 4 dime size drops of product as the proper amount of product to use and this can be correct for concentrated products or working small sections and if you follow this advice make sure you are not under lubricating the surface being worked.

I usually place about a 2/3rds circle pattern to the outer face of my buffing pad and get back to work.

Remember you want enough product on the surface so you have,


Abrasives working for you.


A lubricating film keeping and maintaining a wet film between the paint and your pad.

Often times if you don't have enough product you'll end up buffing to a dry buff and when you lose lubrication friction increase and this can lead to micro-marring or hazing.


So a good rule of thumb that has worked for THOUSANDS of people over the decades is to start out with either a Circle Pattern or X Pattern of product on the face of your pad.


Why I prefer a Circle Pattern
I tend to prefer a Circle Pattern as a habit because as you work around the car you'll find that your product will migrate to the center on it's own. This can lead to pad saturation starting at the center of the pad where most of the heat is generated. Knowing this... I don't help it by using an X pattern.

Circle Pattern on a clean dry pad and then worked for a Section Pass

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/811/AmpleProduct01.jpg http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/811/AmpleProduct02.jpg


Pad is now equally dampened with residual product. At this point you could clean your pad or add fresh product and when you add fresh product you can adjust how much product you apply. In this example I used half a circle of product since the pad is now dampened.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/811/AmpleProduct03.jpg http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/811/AmpleProduct04.jpg



X-Pattern on a clean dry pad and then worked for a Section Pass

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/811/AmpleProduct05.jpg http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/811/AmpleProduct02.jpg


After making a thorough Section Pass. The pad is now equally dampened with residual product. At this point you could clean your pad or add fresh product and when you add fresh product you can adjust how much product you apply. In this example I used half an X-Pattern, or a single strip of product since the pad is already dampened.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/811/AmpleProduct08.jpg http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/811/AmpleProduct09.jpg


The key it to have enough product on the surface as you're working a section to have a film of product that you can see on the surface behind the polisher as you move the polisher in a direction.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/811/AmpleProduct10.jpg


Hope that helps...


:)