First time claying

[BradMO]

Thought the more experienced members might get a laugh from my trauma.

So I read up, watch the videos, and start claying the hood. Five minutes later I'm freaking out.

This %$#! clay has left all these grayish marks on my hood! Dear lord, tell me that's not primer, tell me I don't have the most fragile paint in existence and managed to cut to primer with a freaking clay bar...oh...wait a sec...uh...

That's dirt.

That's some baked on layer of grey dinge I never really noticed since the entire car is covered with it. The nice looking patches? Where I managed to get enough pressure to pull it out with the clay.

This may take a little longer than I thought.

I'm just using a Mother's kit I picked up locally. How much time might XMT or Meguiar's "Aggressive" version save me?

Is there a strong but safe cleaner, rather idealistic combo I know, I might use beforehand or just lean into the panel more and keep trucking? It's a '83 Mercedes 300D so not like I can dent something without a running start. ;)

[Mike Phillips]

Since this is your first post to our forum...

Welcome to Autogeek Online! :welcome:

This is a great forum and growing all the time and it's our goal to help see you through to success in a family friendly way... something you can't always find on other detailing discussion forums...





It's a '83 Mercedes 300D so not like I can dent something without a running start. ;)




Has this car been parked outside most of it's life or the last few years and neglected?

Do you now if it has single stage paint?

That is, when you apply any kind of polish, do you see the color of the car's paint coming off onto your applicator pad?

Or do you know for sure that it has a clear coat finish?


:)

[Blackthorn One]

Meguiar's makes an aggressive red clay, that removes some oxidation at the same time that it removes contaminants. If you are going to polish after wards that might be an option for you, and could save you some time perhaps. Without pics, it is hard to say better. What color is the car? At any rate, it definitely sounds like you need at least a medium clay, which I think the Mother's is. It is always best to use the least aggressive methods. I trust you are using enough clay lube?
I'm going to guess that this car is silver and that this is single stage paint, being an '83. This gray residue you are removing, if the car is silver, is very likely oxidized paint. If so, then I suggest that you do not go more aggressive, and just use the clay to remove the embedded grit, but that you do not rub more in order to polish the car with it. If indeed this is oxidation, I suggest you use Meguiar's #7 afterwards, to see where you stand with the paint, as to how much you can bring it back, before you polish the paint and thus make it thinner to bring back the shine.

[SeaJay's]

Are you sure that it's dirt? I had this happen to me when I switched my clay lube.

I typically use Adam's clay bar and I tried using the Griots Quick Detailer as a lube and it just wasn't lubricating enough and the clay was sticking to the paint. It ended up leaving gray streaks all over the hood. So, it took me a minute to figure out that it was the lube that was the issue. I switched over to some DP Rinseless wash diluted and it stopped the issue.

I'm assuming your probably using Mothers quick detailer or show shine (don't recall the actual name) as the lube since you bought their kit, so this might not be the issue. Just thought I'd share this just in case.

[Mike Phillips]

That's some baked on layer of grey dinge I never really noticed since the entire car is covered with it. The nice looking patches? Where I managed to get enough pressure to pull it out with the clay.


Is there a strong but safe cleaner, rather idealistic combo I know, I might use beforehand or just lean into the panel more and keep trucking?




If you're seeing a layer of dirt on the paint, whether it's a single stage or a clear coat finish, one thing you can do is to use a paint cleaner first and remove the built-up dirt first, this will prevent you from loading up your clay with dirt so it will last longer.

Here's an article I wrote that lists all or most of the hand applied paint cleaners we carry or you might already have one in your arsenal you can use.


The benefits of a light paint cleaner, cleansing lotion or pre-wax cleaner (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/28519-benefits-light-paint-cleaner-cleansing-lotion-pre-wax-cleaner.html)

Here's the list, there's more information in the article...

Paint Cleaners at Autogeek.net
Pinnacle Paintwork Cleansing Lotion (http://www.autogeek.net/pinpainclean.html)
Wolfgang Paintwork Polish Enhancer (http://www.autogeek.net/wg2000.html)
3M Scratch Remover (http://www.autogeek.net/3m-scratch-remover.html)
Dodo Juice Lime Prime Lite Cleaner Glaze (http://www.autogeek.net/lite-cleaner-glaze.html)
Dodo Juice Lime Prime Pre-Wax Cleanser Polish (http://www.autogeek.net/pre-wax-cleanser-polish.html)
Duragloss PreCleaner (http://www.autogeek.net/duprp6.html)
1Z Einszett Paint Polish (http://www.autogeek.net/1z-einszett-paint-polish.html)
Four Star Ultimate PreWax Cleanser (http://www.autogeek.net/four-star-paint-cleanser.html)
Griot's Garage Fine Hand Polish (http://www.autogeek.net/griots-fine-hand-polish.html)
Liquid Glass Pre-Cleaner (http://www.autogeek.net/liqglasprec.html)
Meguiars SCRATCH X 2.0 (http://www.autogeek.net/megscratxfin.html)
Meguiars SwirlX Swirl Remover (http://www.autogeek.net/meguiars-swirl-remover.html)
Mothers California Gold Pre-Wax Cleaner (http://www.autogeek.net/motcalgolpre.html)
Mothers California Gold Scratch Remover (http://www.autogeek.net/motcalgolscr.html)
P21S Gloss Enhancing Paintwork Cleanser (http://www.autogeek.net/p2paincleanl.html)
Poorboy's World Professional Polish (http://www.autogeek.net/pbpp16.html)
SONAX Premium Class Paint Cleaner (http://www.autogeek.net/sonax-premium-paint-cleaner.html)
SONAX Paint Cleaner (http://www.autogeek.net/sonax-paint-cleaner.html)


A paint cleaner or hand applied polish will effectively remove the dirt film or road grime built-up on the surface, as well as oxidation.

This procedure will also remove "some" of the above surface bonded contaminants but usually not all of them. The good news is that after you use the paint cleaner it will be a lot easier and faster to clay the paint.

I use this technique for oxidized single stage paints so I don't load my clay up with oxidized paint.


:)

[BradMO]

Mike: It's looking likely that it was a bit neglected over the past five years or so. The PO developed a heart condition and couldn't take care of it the way he would've liked.

I've seen one the exact same color and year with real heavy chalky oxidation so I'd say mine is probably "medium" in comparison. I've a real hard time telling given the light color of the paint. It's smooth-ish to the hand but rough with the baggie test

Definitely the original non-metallic single stage paint. A white MF towel and a little pressure leaves the tint on the cloth.

Blackthornone: Thankfully this one's a straight Manila Beige with no metallic flake so I at least ducked that beginner nightmare.

I started on the roof earlier, much worse than the hood for the gray marks after a quick initial clay, and attached a photo. It's not the best shot I know, hard with this color and my lighting, but if you look to the right of the clay that grainy "shadow" that runs almost straight down then arcs to the left an inch or two is actually the dirt I'm able to pull off when using concentrated pressure in the area.

The left side of the photo looked the same and is almost clean after about five minutes in maybe a 6x8" area. I'm saying dirt but, since it's so uniform and only noticeable after that first initial pass with the clay, it's probably a combination of dirt+oxidation.

Regarding the amount and type of lube: I think, if anything, I'm using too much lube if such a thing is possible. I've used the majority of the 16oz. Mother's Showtime detailer the kit included doing just the hood, front fender tops, and less than half the roof.

The amount I'm using though really seems the minimum to have the clay glide over the panel instead of stick and grab. Probably another indication that it's oxidation? I picked up a large bottle of Meg's Quik Detailer for when I run out of Mother's.

My initial plan was to just clay then hit with Meguiar's 7+21+26 to get some life and protection back on the car. Then, after I sort out some mechanicals, jump into the correction & long-term maintenance with Meg's #80 and the Wolfgang line.

[BradMO]

Just tried a little experiment, I went over the right side of that photo with some #7 on a terry cloth applicator. Cut right through the gray without any issues and left it smooth and shiny after removing the glaze with a microfiber.

Even with the poor lighting in my garage there's a noticeable difference in the richness of the color. After several washes I'd just assumed that was the "normal" color of the car... ;)

On an aside, there's twenty-seven years of diesel soot under the rear license plate. Clay and #7 still viable there or is it safe to use something like Simple Green to get the majority off first?

[JonMiles]

A decon kit might be beneficial for paint like you are working on. A three stage system will deep clean the paint and get rid of a lot of build up. Claying followed by a good polishing can bring the car back to life.

[forrest@mothers]

I'd caution a first time clay user against using a more aggressive clay bar. There's too much chance of causing more problems.

Mike's suggestion of using a paint cleaner to remove the oxidation before claying is a better choice, and will extend the life of your clay.

Your plan of starting with #7 needs to be modified with a product to prep the paint before glazing. If you're staying with Meguiar's Mirror Glaze products, the appropriate cleaner would be their #2.

[Blackthorn One]

Just tried a little experiment, I went over the right side of that photo with some #7 on a terry cloth applicator. Cut right through the gray without any issues and left it smooth and shiny after removing the glaze with a microfiber.

Even with the poor lighting in my garage there's a noticeable difference in the richness of the color. After several washes I'd just assumed that was the "normal" color of the car... ;)

On an aside, there's twenty-seven years of diesel soot under the rear license plate. Clay and #7 still viable there or is it safe to use something like Simple Green to get the majority off first?


From the looks of the pic, and from what you describe, it seems like most of the gray is oxidation. Based on this new info I would not used a harsher clay. The medium clay you are using now is adequate. When I first started out claying, I made the mistake of trying to use clay to remove oxidation, which took a really long time, and used a heck of a lot of lube, not to mention used up a lot of clay. I would spend over an hour on one panel. Too much time. I should have been using another product to remove that oxidation, or even better, try the #7, in order to conserve paint thickness. If it looks great after using #7, why polish it, when it will only make the paint a whole lot thinner? Honestly, even with #7, there will probably still be polishing involved to remove the swirls and minor scratches, and so the combination of #7 and swirl remover should pretty much take care of it. If I wanted to conserve the paint, I wouldn't polish any more than that. It might take 3 or 4 applications of the #7 to get all of the benefits from it. I think there is a thread you should see that Mike wrote a while back on restoring old paint.

The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/25304-secret-removing-oxidation-restoring-show-car-finish-antique-single-stage-paints.html)