Touch-up Paint Pricing/Method??

[Wills.WindowsAndWheels]

Hey whats up everyone. I'm looking for a little feedback here. I've had a few customers inquire about touch up paint (something like Dr. Color Chip...not spraying) and I'm really not sure what to charge them.

Ive seen good results from dr. color chip...tho it doesnt fill in the chip it does make it a lot less noticable...but im open to other ideas as well.

Does anyone have a way that they sort of go about bidding and doing the job?

Thanks for the help.

[WestEnd]

Ive seen good results from dr. color chip...tho it doesnt fill in the chip it does make it a lot less noticable...but im open to other ideas as well.

I can't answer your pricing question but wanted to comment on the fill. I talked with ... augh ... great guy and now I can't remember his name from dr color chip. He told me you can fill deeper chips in noticeable spots with multiple applications. I tried it and it does bring it up. It takes a lot of time though and probably not practical to your business. Just info!

[rwright]

I would advertise the ability to reduce the appearance of the chip marks but recommend professional painting for a permanent fix. As for pricing, that's up to you. Factor in cost of material and time. One thing you may consider is offering it as an add on or up sell to another service such as a 1-step polish. Great question though, thanks for asking.

[Blackthorn One]

I think charging by the hour is the easiest. It depends upon how the customer wants it done. If you feather edge the chip by sanding, and then build up the paint with two to 4 applications for some deeper chips to the point where it is just above the rest of the paint, and then sand it flush and then buff to match the surrounding area, that is the best and most costly approach. If all you are doing is cleaning out the chip with solvent and then putting one application of touch up paint so it isn't noticeable at 20 feet away, that will take a lot less time, and you need to charge less. The Lanka method involves filling in the chip and then swiping the surface with a plastic card, and I think is the way that gives the best results for the time spent, but the Lanka kits aren't cheap, either. You need to consider the variables and work with the customer to determine what level of service he requires, once you know how much it costs you in time and materials to do the job. After all, it doesn't really matter how much other people charge to do certain work if YOU can't make any money charging that for how much time it costs YOU.

[Mike Phillips]

What to charge?

As much as you can!


Seriously... I watched a guy use the Dr. ColorChip system on a black Tahoe, he invested less than 30 minutes, maybe closer to 20 minutes to do the front lip of the hood where the rock chips were and charged $75.00

I was impressed with his work and his price.

On the topic of quality, here's something I wrote back in 2008 on this topic....





As for your rock chips, everyone wants what you want, they want a way to apply touch-up paint and then massage the area until the surface if flat and it's hard to see where you applied the touch-up paint.

Truth it this is all but impossible for the average car owner to do and difficult at best for someone that's actually really good at this kind of work. Like Nick said, metallic paints are the hardest and even if you were really good at doing rock chip repair, it's going to be near impossible to fix a rock chip on a metallic finish and not have it show up.

This is why you don't find detail shops with "Rock Chip Repair" listed in their list of services, it's hard to do, no one wants to pay for it and you can never make the owner 100% happy and satisfied, (that's because it's hard to do).

This is why the body shop recommended painting the entire hood.

Problem is, after you paint the hood you're likely going to get another rock chip again unless you park the car and don't drive it.

So most people clean the chip as well as they can with Isopropyl Alcohol and then apply the touch-up paint as best as the can and move on with life.

Now follow me on this.... this is what I always tell people...


"You can make rock chip repair as difficult as you want"

And that's a true statement, by this I mean you can apply the touch-up paint and then try to sand the blob flat with the rest of the surface and the remove your sanding marks.

This gets difficult because normally you would remove your sanding marks with a rotary buffer and most people don't own or know how to use a rotary buffer. So then thy try some other means which is usually the old "Traditional Orbital Buffer", like you buy at Sears for $30.00 or by hand or with a DA Polisher.



Here's what they get... because the touch-up paint is a soft paint an the clear coat paint they are applying the touch-up paint tends to be a hard paint, they are able to remove the sanding marks out of the touch-up paint but not the clear coat.

Then they join a forum and asks for help. http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Then someone like me explains the above about the paint softness or hardness for the different types of paints.

Even if you have a rotary buffer and know how to use it, in most cases when you go to remove your sanding marks with a rotary buffer often times the powerful rotary buffer will remove all the sanding marks and often time pull the touch-up paint out of the chip.


Now your back to square one except now because you've sanded and buffed this area of paint on your car it is now thinner than the rest of the paint on the car and you have to keep this in mind as you re-apply touch-up paint for your second try. http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

Anyway, you can make touch-up paint or rock chip repair as complicated as you like, but sometimes more and more work won't get your a better and better looking repair as compared to just carefully applying a little touch-up paint and moving on...

This isn't a fun answer to post because I'm sure you were hoping for a simple, quick, easy, fail-proof method of fixing your rock chip but it just doesn't exist. Again, if there was a simple, and easy fix you would find rock chip repaint listed as a service provided but you don't find this at 99.9% of all detail shops.

Anyway, applying touch-up paint to repair rock chips isn't easy, it isn't fast and it isn't fail-proof, you can make it as complicated as you want but sometimes the best thing to do is to clean the area and apply a little touch-up paint and then move on...




The point is anyone that wants their car to look like it never had any rock chips to start with, so not only in appearance but when they get their nose right down to the surface of the paint and are inspecting for whether or not the filled in chipped area is now perfectly level is a customer that you,


Don't want
Can't make happy

Let someone else have the blessing.


Under promise and over deliver of let the next guy have the hassle err.. I mean blessing... :D

Most companies in this industry and most instructors always teach people to start by inspecting the condition of the finish. I teach people to start by inspecting and evaluating the customer and the reason for this is there are some people you can never please and you don't want them as customers, so start with the person first and if they get your approval, then inspect their car.


:)

[Blackthorn One]

That is a good point you made about the difference in paint hardness between the chip and the surrounding paint. That is why I always mask as much of the surrounding paint as I can BEFORE I start sanding the touch up paint flush. After all, there is nothing wrong with the surrounding paint, so why sand that too? Why make it thin and add more work for myself? Sure, the masking tape will be a little higher than the surrounding paint, so it won't be perfect, but you could always try scotch tape after than, being careful with 2000, 2500 and 3000 grit. Then rub out the chip area scratches by hand. After you remove the tape, it should be just about done. Depending upon how long you let the touch up cure, you can then lightly buff out the area and it will be as good as it gets. Of course this is a lot of labor, but hey, if you really like your car...

[Wills.WindowsAndWheels]

Thanks for all the replies guys...good stuff as usual.

$75 for 30 minutes of work is good money for sure lol..especially if it was done as well as it possibly could have been. I dont want to get too heavily into this, but if i DID run across a customer who, as you said Mike, seems to have good character and isnt going to want to put my work under a microscope and not be happy no matter WHAT i do, then i'd like to be able to offer it to them..as long as they understand this isnt a perfect science.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but with dr. color chip there isnt any sanding is there, you just use the solution that comes with the package to wipe the excess away...or do i have the wrong?

[C. Charles Hahn]

The biggest downside of offering touch-up services is that the overhead cost can be quite significant.

I usually price chip repairs and other touch-up jobs by charging my customers at-cost for the touch up paint that I have mixed on a per-job basis by a local jobber and then charge them an hourly rate after that for substrate prep, paint application, and follow-up work. This way I only have to worry about the cost of consumables eating into my profit, and those are minimal compared to the cost of paint.

Most of the time I still use traditional SSU type paint for touch-up jobs; my jobber sells PPG Delstar (DAR) which I can use straight out of the mixing bank for brush application, or reduce for spraying through an airbrush. For a majority of the jobs I've done, the materials cost comes out to between $25 and $30 with enough left over to take care of future jobs -- the customer just has to hang onto the extra paint and store it where it won't get too hot or too cold.

[ColorsDetailing]

We charge $49 for touch up. I find it a great upsell at this price point. Any higher and I don't think we will have as many bites for it. Our detail shop is owned by a collision center with a full paint booth full of PPG. with the mixing system we can make just enough paint for the touch-ups in a little amout of time. We also use a Flow Pen which is amazing little tool for touch-ups.

[#1 geek]

The dr color chip system is ok but I had a few problems. The color didn't match, the paint wouldn't fill in a recessed area ( no matter how many applications, no dice), and then to make matters worse the paint wiped off when using the instructions to wipe it down with lacquer thinner.

I had better results with automotivetouchup (http://www.automotivetouchup.com)

[ShannonD]

I consider myself to be a fairly critical person and I used Dr. Colorchip on two of my cars and was very happy with the results. I used on a metallic red GMC Envoy and a black CTS. I did notice that the repairs were not level with the surrounding paint, but that was only when I could find them!! IMHO, the end results look 10x better than before. Would it hold up to a show car inspection? Nope. Would it hold up to a cruise in / car show crowd inspection? You bet.

I liked it enough to entertain making it a side business, but as an earlier poster commented, the start-up cost were just too high. I think it works really well at what it was designed for, chip repair, but its not a paint booth in a bottle. Seperating customer expectations,, as Mike said, was an equal deterrent to the high cost.

[Wills.WindowsAndWheels]

We charge $49 for touch up. I find it a great upsell at this price point. Any higher and I don't think we will have as many bites for it. Our detail shop is owned by a collision center with a full paint booth full of PPG. with the mixing system we can make just enough paint for the touch-ups in a little amout of time. We also use a Flow Pen which is amazing little tool for touch-ups.

So do you charge $49 plus the cost of paint or a flat $49? What is PPG?


I consider myself to be a fairly critical person and I used Dr. Colorchip on two of my cars and was very happy with the results. I used on a metallic red GMC Envoy and a black CTS. I did notice that the repairs were not level with the surrounding paint, but that was only when I could find them!! IMHO, the end results look 10x better than before. Would it hold up to a show car inspection? Nope. Would it hold up to a cruise in / car show crowd inspection? You bet.

I liked it enough to entertain making it a side business, but as an earlier poster commented, the start-up cost were just too high. I think it works really well at what it was designed for, chip repair, but its not a paint booth in a bottle. Seperating customer expectations,, as Mike said, was an equal deterrent to the high cost.


As i said before ive heard good reports on Dr. color chip..but im sure every persons experience is better. I wasnt looking for a show car finish type of touch up..but something that will make it much less noticable and wont flake off in a year would be nice.

I guess i'll just offer it to customers who inquire about it...explain to them what it will (and wont) do and kinda keep it at an 'as needed' type of service...not something id specialize in lol (i'll stick to clear coat correction as my forte) :dblthumb2:

[Alkilgore]

I have been on the paint business for over 25 years and have some insight on correctly done "brush " type touch ups.
First of all, a almost flawless brush touch up,
I have done this hundreds of times and it does take some expertise.
first off clean the affected chipHole out with a tooth brush and some accetone.
Use a paint brush and apply the binder in the chip, wipe excess off with a plastic card.
let dry for 10 min,
now use a small hard block, ( i cut styrafoame 1x1 blocks ) and sand over the chip / binder area slightly. wipe off with prep solvent , let dry 1500 grt
mix paint color with a little mixed 2 k clear and dab the chip hole till slightly overfilled.
let dry for aprox 1 hr, less if in hot weather.
use a slightly larger bloc ( again made from styrafoam ) and use 2500 grt. you want to use some dish soap and water. lightly sand untill you see a flat finish.

I use a medium to light polish over the area till sand scratches are gone ( usually only 2 slight applications ) and then the chip is gone. If pait color is accurate it is virtually impossible to see. The binder is used to fill most of the chip, the color mixed with the 2 k clear will blend and bind with the original paint. A lengthly process but when you get it down pat, it is easy and will outshine any simple chip coloring.

[Flannigan]

I'll preface this by saying I've never used Dr. Colorchip, only regular touch up paint. That said if I'm doing a multi-step correction, and the car isn't totally covered in chips, I don't up charge. I charge a lot for my services to begin with, so it's something I just throw in for free that customers really appreciate.

Now if I used Dr. colorchip I would have to up charge at least to cover the cost of the kit. But with touchup paint it's easy because I buy some for every car I do, and after only a short time I have a big selection at my disposal and rarely have to go buy anymore. I used to give it to the customer, but found it was more likely to just sit in their glove box than be used, so I just started keeping them.

[Wills.WindowsAndWheels]

I have been on the paint business for over 25 years and have some insight on correctly done "brush " type touch ups.
First of all, a almost flawless brush touch up,
I have done this hundreds of times and it does take some expertise.
first off clean the affected chipHole out with a tooth brush and some accetone.
Use a paint brush and apply the binder in the chip, wipe excess off with a plastic card.
let dry for 10 min,
now use a small hard block, ( i cut styrafoame 1x1 blocks ) and sand over the chip / binder area slightly. wipe off with prep solvent , let dry 1500 grt
mix paint color with a little mixed 2 k clear and dab the chip hole till slightly overfilled.
let dry for aprox 1 hr, less if in hot weather.
use a slightly larger bloc ( again made from styrafoam ) and use 2500 grt. you want to use some dish soap and water. lightly sand untill you see a flat finish.

I use a medium to light polish over the area till sand scratches are gone ( usually only 2 slight applications ) and then the chip is gone. If pait color is accurate it is virtually impossible to see. The binder is used to fill most of the chip, the color mixed with the 2 k clear will blend and bind with the original paint. A lengthly process but when you get it down pat, it is easy and will outshine any simple chip coloring.


I'll preface this by saying I've never used Dr. Colorchip, only regular touch up paint. That said if I'm doing a multi-step correction, and the car isn't totally covered in chips, I don't up charge. I charge a lot for my services to begin with, so it's something I just throw in for free that customers really appreciate.

Now if I used Dr. colorchip I would have to up charge at least to cover the cost of the kit. But with touchup paint it's easy because I buy some for every car I do, and after only a short time I have a big selection at my disposal and rarely have to go buy anymore. I used to give it to the customer, but found it was more likely to just sit in their glove box than be used, so I just started keeping them.


So what do you guys charge if you DO end up having to charge for the work because it ends up being more than just a few?