How good is good enough?

[Shane731]

I was thinking about this thread earlier - http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/29410-i-have-different-mindset-now.html - and it got me to thinking, how good is good enough? What I mean is, I know I'm not nearly as good as some of these guys: Mike Phillips, Nick Chapman, Joe Fernandez, David Fermani, Todd Helme, Rasky, and the list goes on and on (sorry if I didn't mention more names - those were the only ones I could think of off the top of my head, and if you have something against somebody I mentioned, be kind enough to keep it to yourself), but looking at some of their writeups makes me feel bad. I would like our cars to be 100% factory perfect looking all the time, but with my limited knowledge and experience I know there is only so much I can do. Even when doing cars for money (which I don't get to do very often), I know that I can't turn out a rolling piece of art. I mean, I think I do a pretty darn good job at detailing, but if our white 2000 Honda Odyssey does have a few swirls in it, is that OK? What if I missed a spot doing the interior, or I don't scrub every little nook and cranny, does that make me a hack? So tell me, for an enthusiast or hobbyist such as myself, how good is good enough?

[Toymachine2009]

To the average person your probably better than good. Most people don't know or care about swirls and what not and if you removed 95 percent of defects I think they would be amazed at that and that would be good enough.. If the customer is happy and think you did awesome even though there is still those deep RIDS couldn't get out yet their car is so shiny that they can't even tell or care about those few RIDS. To them the car looks perfect and there happy with it.

[Shane731]

I guess another way to ask this question would be: What separates a professional detailer from an enthusiast from a hack detailer?

[oldmodman]

I just did a Kia that is being given to a neighbors daughter and after a wash and clay all I used was Klasse AIO. It did (to me) only a half assed job in that not all the swirls were eliminated, but the owner was incredibly happy with the results. I guess it's in the mind of the owner, not the detailer. I felt OK since it was a freebe anyway.

[XB70]

Detailing is like golf, and I hate golf and golfers! There is no best score in golf. Shoot par and and some clown will shoot -1. Shoot -1 and he'll shoot -2. It's no wonder the 19th hole is a bar.

If your detail gets judged 100.00 at Pebble Beach, it will degrade to 99 in 10 minutes, 96 in thirty, etc. JUST SITTING THERE.

I spend a full weekend detailing my car and it isn't perfect. 999 out of 1,000 people won't realize it isn't perfect and it starts degrading the minute I stop detailing let alone pull it out the driveway and drive around the block. I normally use Meguiar's #80 Speed Glaze and #21 Synthetic Sealant. I have a bottle of Meguiar's #26 Hi Tech Yellow Wax that I've never opened. I know it will make my car shinier or give it a warm glow or whatever, but the #21 is GOOD ENOUGH.

Currently, I'm trying out Finish Kare 1000P Hi Temp Paste Wax (sealant) to see if it's more durable than Meguiar's #21 (which lasts through entire Northwest Wyoming winters with no problems).

When I moved to Wyoming, lots of people commented on how clean my car was. With all the gravel and dirt roads, plus weather everybody elses's car is dirty on top of never being detailed. Five years ago, I decided no one would every see my car dirty or dusty. That's why I never take it out of the garage without using Meguiar's Detailer Line Detailer or dusting it off with a California Duster.

Granted, I have an F250 for winter and sloppy weather, but I do get a big kick out of the reactions I continue to get every time I drive my car.

For me, good enough is getting a noticed by non-car guys on a daily basis. (especially the non-car guys at local new car dealers. My seven year old car looks better than any new car on the lot!)

[jpegs13]

I guess another way to ask this question would be: What separates a professional detailer from an enthusiast from a hack detailer?

Just by asking THAT question means you care and have separated yourself by being better than most.

[tuscarora dave]

Just by asking THAT question means you care and have separated yourself by being better than most.
I agree with this post. :xyxthumbs: Now if you would run the car out with SSR3 and a wool pad on a rotary and go straight to LSP, then I guess you would be a hack. But we all know better than that. Keep up the good work.

[Scott DeBrun]

A guy I work with had me shine up his Denali for him a month ago and once I got it washed up I thought oh crap what have I got myself into. It's black with alot of swirl marks so I called him and told him I didn't have the equipment or products to get out the swirls but I would try my best. When he picked up his truck he was very pleased with the shine on it. I again apologised for not doing a better job on the swirls but he didn't care and said he loved it. I think he appreciated my honesty about his truck.

[BobbyG]

I guess another way to ask this question would be: What separates a professional detailer from an enthusiast from a hack detailer?

If you detail a customers car with the same mindset as when detailing your own then you're not an enthusiast or hack.

The methods, tools, and products used alos are part of this equation. Now, this does not mean if you spend allot of money buying tools, product, and equipment you're a professional, all this means is you have a pile of expensive stuff.

You know if you've done the job correctly because you have integrity and care. You strive for perfection and treat each car as if it were your own. You know when the job is done right and done right the first time.

[daveinsweethome]

using someone like paul daulton as an example we might all be called hacks. but truthfully who has that much extra time in their lives to pull that off. i look at the works shown on these forums and marvel at the balls it takes to tackle some of these heaps. the satisfaction comes from within. i feel like a god when i use my resources to bring a beater or even a mercedes back to life. a friend told me recently that the money earned doing a kia spends just like an aston martin. (more product right?) enjoy your hobby/ career as a detailer. your work speaks for itself.

[JonMiles]

This post is great, it proves you are far ahead of the average joe in that you desire perfection and are willing to reach out for the help to achieve it.

IMO good enough for a professional detailer, is cleaning, correcting and protecting to the satisfaction of the customer and making sure that the customer gets his/her money's worth. Many customers only want their car to be clean and don't appreciate a perfect finish, they will pay for the cleaning but not for the correction. A handful of customers want flawless paint and interiors so they are willing to pay for the work involved.

Good enough for the enthusiast is the same, except you are the customer and the detailer who pays only for the equipment and chemicals needed to reach your desired result; good enough may be 99% perfect or 80% perfect depending on what you are looking for. I believe there is no such thing as 100% perfect, because no matter how well you detail a car there is always something that is left. I would say there are many levels of enthusiast including the sunday car washer, the concours daily driver, the show hopper, the weekly wash and waxer, the garage queens, etc.

Good enough for a hack is shiny and vacuumed. this is the typical mentality of the 16 year old with a buffer at the local car wash/"detailing center". A hack normally just gets paid per car and tries to get as many through as possible throughout the day.

Many professional detailers are also enthusiasts in that they get paid to do cars for people, but also demand perfection in their own vehicles. And many enthusiasts eventually become professional detailers.

[Shane731]

bump

[Bunky]

I would define a hack is someone who leaves the vehicle in worse condition than it was received (taking off too much clear unnecessarily, leaving holograms, using the wrong chemicals causing issues with wheels, saying you did something that you did not do, etc).

[C. Charles Hahn]

I was thinking about this thread earlier - http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/29410-i-have-different-mindset-now.html - and it got me to thinking, how good is good enough? What I mean is, I know I'm not nearly as good as some of these guys: Mike Phillips, Nick Chapman, Joe Fernandez, David Fermani, Todd Helme, Rasky, and the list goes on and on (sorry if I didn't mention more names - those were the only ones I could think of off the top of my head, and if you have something against somebody I mentioned, be kind enough to keep it to yourself), but looking at some of their writeups makes me feel bad. I would like our cars to be 100% factory perfect looking all the time, but with my limited knowledge and experience I know there is only so much I can do. Even when doing cars for money (which I don't get to do very often), I know that I can't turn out a rolling piece of art. I mean, I think I do a pretty darn good job at detailing, but if our white 2000 Honda Odyssey does have a few swirls in it, is that OK? What if I missed a spot doing the interior, or I don't scrub every little nook and cranny, does that make me a hack? So tell me, for an enthusiast or hobbyist such as myself, how good is good enough?

Here's my take.... and it's not any kind of "personal attack" against any of the guys you mentioned, it's just me making an observation. I really don't think that ANY detailer, no matter how high profile they may be, ever achieves 100% perfection. When you're detailing a car, regardless of what level of experience you may have, you're always bound to miss SOMETHING along the way.

And, you have to remember, a professional detailer is bound in large part by the owner of the vehicle they're working on. If they aren't willing to allow the detailer to go all-out and take as much time as necessary to reach as close to perfect as can realistically be expected, that detailer has to live with the fact that there are going to be things they miss due to having a limit placed on their contact with the vehicle.

That said, if you're looking to make a clear distinction between a hack, enthusiast, and professional, I think what you're really looking for is this: A hack is someone who doesn't know how to do their job properly, doesn't care about doing their job well, and has extreme limits placed on the amount of time they have to do the job. An enthusiast generally knows what they're doing, but since they're not as experienced and accustomed to detailing day-in and day-out may take longer to do the same job as a professional and/or may not possess all of the professional grade equipment that a full-time detailer has and uses on a regular basis. Not to mention that since most enthusiasts aren't earning a living on their detailing alone, they too must limit their time with the vehicle and simply "live with" a few things being less than 100% perfect.

In the case of the high profile professionals you mentioned, I think the primary reason that they impress others both inside and outside of the detailing community as it exists is that they know how to market themselves well -- which is the key to success for anyone trying to run a professional business. These guys are able to convince owners to let them go all out on a vehicle and pay them enough to allow the use of the highest end products and equipment, and they also use their photography and writing skills to present the work in a manner that creates notoriety.

The reality here is that no professional, be it Mike Phillips, Paul Dalton, or any other big name you can think of in this industry, is doing anything that anyone else who cares can't do. It all comes down to time, money, and presentation.

"I can tell you a funny joke, but that doesn't mean I'm a stand-up comic."

:dblthumb2:

[DetailedByPrecision]

To the average person your probably better than good. Most people don't know or care about swirls and what not and if you removed 95 percent of defects I think they would be amazed at that and that would be good enough.. If the customer is happy and think you did awesome even though there is still those deep RIDS couldn't get out yet their car is so shiny that they can't even tell or care about those few RIDS. To them the car looks perfect and there happy with it.

x2. I did my cousins trunk that was a mess and i restored about 60% of it. I told him i was not done with it yet because I still needed to refine it. He refused and told me he was already really happy with it because the glow matches the rest of the car now. His car was black btw. It all comes down to customer satisfaction and your own personal satisfaction of your service.