Help with "haze" after DA polish

[encoder]

Hey guys, sure this has been covered, but having trouble searching for an answer..

- I bought an black 08 Benz last month, low miles, good care, just minor swirls and fine scratches on trunk, rear bumper, etc.

- Did a lot of research and placed a large order (by my standards), including a PC, Flex pads, Nattys blue, Megs #20, Griots tire dress, 303, etc etc. I forgot... doh! polish. Kicked myself. Noticed on a Friday.

- That saturday I had an open day, my only open day for 3 weeks. REALLY was excited about polishing the car.. so I used some Megs Ultimate Compound (AutoZone stuff...) that I had lying around. Did some research on how abrasive it is, etc.

- I Washed, Dried and Clayed. I taped the car. I polished the trunk lid.. I started with the polishing pad (blue, I think), then moved to the medium cut pad (green) after I didn't see the results I wanted. Trunk turned out beautifully. I was like 5 hours in at this point... I'd heard advice to not try to do a whole car at once.. I felt like I could because the paint was really pretty good as-is.... Bad move #1 I think.

- I was happy with how it all worked out. Did the major surfaces, vertical and horizontal, of the whole car. Then, it's like 8, 9 hours in at this point and my paint is completely unprotected so I tried to focus and power thru the rest of the polishing.

- Machine applied a coat of Megs #20, then applied a second coat before removing the first, removed it with the microfiber bonnet, removed all the tape, did the windows, tires, etc, 13 hours in I was done.

The thing, in the halogen lights on that clear night, looked beautiful. All was fine until the following week. I was on Saturday mornings. Wash went good. Great beading/sheeting. Then drying... What I noticed is that... I taped-up the seems between panels with 1" blue tape. What I noticed on close-inspection is.. where it was taped, it looked better than where i polished. It was a more true black. So real close inspection, there are micro, micro blemishes.. scratches? don't know how to describe it. But sure enough, take a step back and look and compare the 2 areas and it's a general dullness/haze. Crap!

I have 3 things...

1) Any general critique of my process? Aside from being too ambitious and therefore too fast?

2) What should I do now? Just use a proper polish, do a section at a time, maybe one a day, get it cleared up?

3) I noticed when I removed the tape I had like white lines where I guess it's polish that bulit up there. I had a heck of a time getting them all. Any tips or is that par with your experiences?

I'll be placing an order for proper polish today... seems Menz 85rd & powerfinish combo is well-liked... there are still swirls I didn't get out with the Ultimate Compound that I'd like to now that I have to drag it out again. Or... am I off here? Is the megs up to the task and I just messed up by not polishing it long enough? Or should I have went back over it with the Blue (polish) pad? Instead of just using the Green?

Thanks again, sorry for the Wall O' Text,
Shane

[Mike Phillips]

I polished the trunk lid.. I started with the polishing pad (blue, I think), then moved to the medium cut pad (green) after I didn't see the results I wanted.

Trunk turned out beautifully. I was like 5 hours in at this point...

I'd heard advice to not try to do a whole car at once..

I felt like I could because the paint was really pretty good as-is.... Bad move #1 I think.


When first starting out, for some people and some situations it's a good idea to just do a few panels or maybe the front clip. Working from start to finish just on a few panels or the front clip will still take a chunk of time but you won't get burnt out...




- I was happy with how it all worked out. Did the major surfaces, vertical and horizontal, of the whole car. Then, it's like 8, 9 hours in at this point and my paint is completely unprotected so I tried to focus and power thru the rest of the polishing.

- Machine applied a coat of Megs #20, then applied a second coat before removing the first, removed it with the microfiber bonnet, removed all the tape, did the windows, tires, etc, 13 hours in I was done.


M20 is a light cleaner/wax, normally you would remove a first application before applying a second application, even though this isn't a recommended procedure, M20 is pretty harmless and I don't think this would be the root cause of your problem.




So real close inspection, there are micro, micro blemishes.. scratches? don't know how to describe it. But sure enough, take a step back and look and compare the 2 areas and it's a general dullness/haze. Crap!


Micro-Marring, Tick Marks, Hazing... all the same terms for the scratch pattern imparted by the oscillation action of a DA Polisher.

This recent article has a picture of extreme micro-marring...

The difference between Rotary Buffer Swirls, Cobweb Swirls and Micro-Marring (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/28443-difference-between-rotary-buffer-swirls-cobweb-swirls-micro-marring.html)



http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/773/MicromarringTickMarks01.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/773/MicromarringTickMarks02.jpg







I have 3 things...

1) Any general critique of my process? Aside from being too ambitious and therefore too fast?


Not too fast but where's the finishing polish step? Ultimate Compound is high caliber product that will finish down really nice on most paint systems using most application methods including application by hand but that don't mean it will finish down perfect no all paint systems. This is where a Test Spot comes in handy and even chemically stripping your test spot to make sure the finish you're seeing is the finish you're really getting.



2) What should I do now? Just use a proper polish, do a section at a time, maybe one a day, get it cleared up?


Yes, use a light or finishing polish and a softer pad, either a polishing pad or a finishing pad. It's a matter of finding the right combination of pad and polish that's aggressive enough to cut out the micro-marring left by the green pad and the compound but hopefully finish out micro-marring free.

The PO85RD might work with a polishing pad but a sure fire product to try would be the Menzerna Super Intensive Polish (http://www.autogeek.net/menzerna-super-intensive-polish.html) which is PO83 on the Autogeek.net store. Then follow up with the PO85RD which will finish down to perfection on most paint systems with most application processes...




3) I noticed when I removed the tape I had like white lines where I guess it's polish that built up there. I had a heck of a time getting them all. Any tips or is that par with your experiences?


This is residue from your product that builds up along the edge of the tape, it's a pain to remove. One option is for your last polishing process, remove the tape, or at least most of it, (be careful around pebble textured black plastic trim), and let your last polishing process remove the residue.

Now if you want to go deep, some would argue this residue might contaminate or adulterate the final polishing process but I would choose to major on the majors and minor on the minors and just get to polishing...



there are still swirls I didn't get out with the Ultimate Compound

Shane

Don't confuse the remaining swirls with RIDS, but if they're not RIDS then go after them with the UC and a light cutting pad...

RIDS - The Definition of RIDS and the story behind the term... (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/24045-rids-definition-rids-story-behind-term.html)


Get your products and then do a "Test Spot" and make sure you're creating the finish you want to one small area before going over the entire car.


:)

[Fly bye]

there are still swirls I didn't get out with the Ultimate Compound





These things take time. There are scratches that were there before you started that are still there, but now there is a slight haze, or micro marring on the finish. I think we all know that story. I know we should always start with the least aggressive method first, then work up in aggression until the defects start coming out, but I probably would not have started with the blue pad.

Even though we should always start with the least aggressive method first, I think with experience, you'll have a good grasp as to what combination will work at correcting cetain defects to begin with.

As far as the scratches that didn't come out, they will have to be worked harder. As far as the haze, that will have to be finessed. The haze will have to be polished out with a less aggressive method/combination. When you start getting into fine detail, (thats why it's called detailing) you'll have to start experimenting a bit, and listen to Mike P. which will save you tons of time vs the trial and error of figuring it out by yourself.


:buffing:

[encoder]

Thank you, sincerely, for the time you put into that. I'm fortunate to live in Sarasota, I get practically overnight shipping from you folks.

Thanks again!

Shane

[encoder]

I just ordered the SIP and the 85rd.

Thanks guys for your advice.

[jujubii]

i dont mean to steal the thread encoder but i just wanted to ask mike or just about anyone else a couple of questions as i will be detailing my car in the near future. i acutally have the same products as you (ultimate compound and m20) and i was just doing a little research before i actually began.

my car has really soft paint so i was thinking of this combination:
green pad + UC
tangerine pad + (some sort of finishing polish)
black/crimson pad + M20
(these are lake country pads)

- if i researched correctly, the finishing polish should come before the sealant correct? but m20, as you stated is a, is a light cleaner.. would it mess up the finishing polish's finish?
btw... would M205 be a good product choice in this case?
- how does this setup sound?

and some extra questions if you dont mind answering:
- when switching panels, alot of detailers reccomend that you either swap pads or "brush" of the excess/residue from the polish... what kind of brush do i use and what technique?
- people always recommend blue tapping the trimmings or plasticy areas... is it okay if the buffer touches the tape a little?

THANKS ALOT in advance!!!
i did as much research as i could before i posted because i didnt want to sound stupid :P

sincerely,
jujubii

[Doyle4281]

Hey guys, sure this has been covered, but having trouble searching for an answer..

- I bought an black 08 Benz last month, low miles, good care, just minor swirls and fine scratches on trunk, rear bumper, etc.

- Did a lot of research and placed a large order (by my standards), including a PC, Flex pads, Nattys blue, Megs #20, Griots tire dress, 303, etc etc. I forgot... doh! polish. Kicked myself. Noticed on a Friday.

- That saturday I had an open day, my only open day for 3 weeks. REALLY was excited about polishing the car.. so I used some Megs Ultimate Compound (AutoZone stuff...) that I had lying around. Did some research on how abrasive it is, etc.

- I Washed, Dried and Clayed. I taped the car. I polished the trunk lid.. I started with the polishing pad (blue, I think), then moved to the medium cut pad (green) after I didn't see the results I wanted. Trunk turned out beautifully. I was like 5 hours in at this point... I'd heard advice to not try to do a whole car at once.. I felt like I could because the paint was really pretty good as-is.... Bad move #1 I think.

- I was happy with how it all worked out. Did the major surfaces, vertical and horizontal, of the whole car. Then, it's like 8, 9 hours in at this point and my paint is completely unprotected so I tried to focus and power thru the rest of the polishing.

- Machine applied a coat of Megs #20, then applied a second coat before removing the first, removed it with the microfiber bonnet, removed all the tape, did the windows, tires, etc, 13 hours in I was done.

The thing, in the halogen lights on that clear night, looked beautiful. All was fine until the following week. I was on Saturday mornings. Wash went good. Great beading/sheeting. Then drying... What I noticed is that... I taped-up the seems between panels with 1" blue tape. What I noticed on close-inspection is.. where it was taped, it looked better than where i polished. It was a more true black. So real close inspection, there are micro, micro blemishes.. scratches? don't know how to describe it. But sure enough, take a step back and look and compare the 2 areas and it's a general dullness/haze. Crap!

I have 3 things...

1) Any general critique of my process? Aside from being too ambitious and therefore too fast?

2) What should I do now? Just use a proper polish, do a section at a time, maybe one a day, get it cleared up?

3) I noticed when I removed the tape I had like white lines where I guess it's polish that bulit up there. I had a heck of a time getting them all. Any tips or is that par with your experiences?

I'll be placing an order for proper polish today... seems Menz 85rd & powerfinish combo is well-liked... there are still swirls I didn't get out with the Ultimate Compound that I'd like to now that I have to drag it out again. Or... am I off here? Is the megs up to the task and I just messed up by not polishing it long enough? Or should I have went back over it with the Blue (polish) pad? Instead of just using the Green?

Thanks again, sorry for the Wall O' Text,
Shane


Thanks Shane, I think I may have just run into this same problem yesterday on my brothers 2000 Black CLK. I used an orange pad/XMT #2 followed by a white pad and XMT 360. Still being new with the DA, it almost seemed like the areas I polished were less black than the unpolished areas. Under the LED, there are no fine swirls, just RIDS, but in the sun, the polished areas almost have a greyish tint. This might be my untrained eye not being used to freshly polished panel, or I should go over it with a finishing pad and glaze. Thanks for sharing