Rotary vs Dual Action

[AndrewBall]

Ok, Now I know the mechanical differences between the two. Ive been using an old Vector Rotary for a while now. it has never failed me, and does a great job. but its a bulky, heavy machine. Im using 8.5" pads on it. it works great for just about everything (except those hard to reach places)

Everyone always talks about the benefit of the DA being its easier for the less experienced user. I am wondering is it worth picking up a PC DA or other model to add to my collection. Would it be better suited for applying those final stages of cleaners and waxes then firing up my rotary?

my main question is. can a DA make my life easier? my rotary is a monster and i dont mind using it. its of those "if its not broken dont fix it" situations. I am just wondering if it will allow me to work faster and more efficiently then using a rotary for finishing. Obviously for scratch and oxidation removal ill use my rotary because of the power. Also for any wet sanding correction. Is there any downsides to using a rotary from start to finish? Can it leave swirls that I am not seeing until weeks after the waxes break down and wear off? Does the increased heat

im basically looking for all the pros and cons of the two. aside from the fact that its easier to use for less experienced users. Ive never done anything to a car with my rotary. I dont plan to start. Although i know anything can happen.

I just cant decide do I buy the PC DA intro pad kit or do i just get some more pads for my rotary and some other little things i need and just move on. Im having a hard time springing for the DA since Ive had nothing but great results from my rotary

Thanks guys.

[Rsurfer]

You won't see holograms weeks later with a DA. More detailers are hanging up their rotaries and going with a DA with the new polishes (105/205, Optimum Hyper Spray).

[JonMiles]

I just made the move to pick up a DA, and i've used it 1 time so far. So far I feel like the rotary is a great tool for getting the hard stuff out of the way quickly. You can get rid of the deeper stuff with the rotary and if using the right pads/products the finish will look great when you are done, but most the time you look over the car there are a few holograms and swirls left over. By incorporating a DA, you can finish out what you have done with the rotary to perfection without the worry of holograms and swirls. Wax application is also very simple with a DA, you put it on the pad, flip a switch and just let the DA glide across the paint. Very simple.

Cons of each are pretty easy; the rotary is difficult to finish perfect with and tends to leave holograms somewhere. The DA is not as powerful and will not be able to get rid of the deepest stuff or wetsanding marks as easily.

By combining both in your detailing, you will see better results and be able to work faster. Start with the rotary, end with the DA.

[AndrewBall]

thanks, guys thats what i was sort of thinking but for the value i couldnt decide whether or not i should make the move or pick up some other things.

[Mike Phillips]

Actually, if you detail cars all the time or even occasionally you should have one of each, rotary buffers are the best tool for the job for some procedures while DA Polishers are best for other jobs...

If you don't have a DA Polisher then definitely add one to your arsenal...


I posted the below to another thread yesterday but it pretty much fits here too...

We used 2 PC's last night to turn a diamond in the ruff into a glistening gemstone...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/932/1959CadillacExtremeMakeover014.jpg


No swirls, no burn-throughs, just pure clear shine...


Here's an article I wrote where I created a "Ease of Use Scale" and rated all the popular machine. There's two videos below it where you can see all of the different types turned on and operated...

Here's an in-depth article on the topic...

How to choose the right polisher for your detailing project (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/22263-how-choose-right-polisher-your-detailing-project.html)



An overview with demonstrations of the Porter Cable 7424XP, Meguiar's G110v2, Griot's Garage 6" Random Orbital Polisher, Griot's Garage 3" Mini Polisher, Flex 3401, Flex 603, Flex 3403, Cyclo Polisher, Makita 9227C, DeWalt 849,


Part 1 - How To Pick the Right Car Polisher for your Detail Project
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtrdTvnZX3I]YouTube - Part 1 - How To Pick the Right Car Polisher for your Detail Project[/video]



Part 2 - How To Pick the Right Car Polisher for your Detail Project
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k92m5cJxCk]YouTube - Part 2 - How To Pick the Right Car Polisher for your Detail Project[/video]



The Flex 3401 in action...
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CtUaI_8HhE]YouTube - Performing a "Test Spot" to the paint on a 1957 Chevrolet Belair[/video]

[clearview]

How much time will really be saved? I know using the rotary is obviously faster. When you follow it up with a DA how long will you have to polish to remove the light swirls etc. left by the rotary? It's not correction but what would be involved in the final step with the DA and what type of product would you be using?

[Mike Phillips]

How much time will really be saved? I know using the rotary is obviously faster. When you follow it up with a DA how long will you have to polish to remove the light swirls etc. left by the rotary? It's not correction but what would be involved in the final step with the DA and what type of product would you be using?


You would normally only need to use a medium to light cut polish with a polishing pad.

What you need depends upon how deep the swirls are and how hard the paint is... removing swirls is simply a leveling process.


:)

[jahman]

How much time will really be saved? I know using the rotary is obviously faster. When you follow it up with a DA how long will you have to polish to remove the light swirls etc. left by the rotary? It's not correction but what would be involved in the final step with the DA and what type of product would you be using?

Ive had great success on most paint using the DA with M205 with about 3 passes to get rid of holograms if my rotary leaves some behind. Its a relatively quick process. The menzerna finishing polishes work really well too but you might have to work them longer, thus slowing down the process. But they tend to leave a better looking finish IMHO.

I find that I can buff a car using this process in about 2 hours on average. More if its a large vehicle and/or the paint is hard or in bad shape. The trick is to make sure you do all of your correction with the rotary minus the holograms. The DA polishers make quick work of holograms.

[clearview]

Ive had great success on most paint using the DA with M205 with about 3 passes to get rid of holograms if my rotary leaves some behind. Its a relatively quick process. The menzerna finishing polishes work really well too but you might have to work them longer, thus slowing down the process. But they tend to leave a better looking finish IMHO.

I find that I can buff a car using this process in about 2 hours on average. More if its a large vehicle and/or the paint is hard or in bad shape. The trick is to make sure you do all of your correction with the rotary minus the holograms. The DA polishers make quick work of holograms.

I have SwirlX and Ultimate Compound and Megs #83. Lets say I do some error correction with the rotary, using UC, which of these do you think I should follow up with on the DA to remove any holograms etc...?

[AndrewBall]

I have SwirlX and Ultimate Compound and Megs #83. Lets say I do some error correction with the rotary, using UC, which of these do you think I should follow up with on the DA to remove any holograms etc...?

well you want to use something thats not as abrasive or has less "cut" then the compound and a less aggressive pad. so you would want to step down to a light cutting or polishing pad. and so on. the DA used with the right product will remove the swirls and such left behind by the Rotary. Ive done many cars swirl free with my rotary but it was a long tedious process. 3-5 steps and the last few steps were using light pads and low speed and then finishing by hand

[Bert31]

Hey Mike, I know watching an old Open Garage video you or Mike Pennington (forget which) mentioned that sanding scratches should always be corrected with a rotary with wool. That was back in the days before M105. Does the rule still hold true or does M105 on a cutting pad do just fine on a DA?

[rohnramirez]

It works, Mike had a video of it just. Based on my understanding though, you would have to sand at grits exceeding 2500 most of the time if you are to use a cutting pad to remove sandmarks. Keep in mind, i have never tried to remove sanding scratches using a DA. :)

[Adam]

I have used a medium cut Edge pad on a rotary to get rid of 2000 grit sanding marks and it was tough work. I'd never attempt it with a DA. Personally I only ever use a rotary. I did have a DAS-6 but when I purchased the rotary I didn't touch it again. If I was the OP I'd be purchasing a better rotary, not a DA.

[Mike Phillips]

I have SwirlX and Ultimate Compound and Megs #83. Lets say I do some error correction with the rotary, using UC, which of these do you think I should follow up with on the DA to remove any holograms etc...?

With a DA I would go with the SwirlX... it's a SMAT product, so is UC and M83 is a DAT product and most of the time the SMAT products will finish out nicer than M83




Ive had great success on most paint using the DA with M205 with about 3 passes to get rid of holograms if my rotary leaves some behind. Its a relatively quick process.


And consistent on most paint systems.




The Menzerna finishing polishes work really well too but you might have to work them longer, thus slowing down the process. But they tend to leave a better looking finish IMHO.


I would also agree... M205 finishes out really nice on most paint systems, I haven't come across a paint system that the fine Menzerna polishes don't just flat out finish perfect on.



The trick is to make sure you do all of your correction with the rotary minus the holograms. The DA polishers make quick work of holograms.


I agree. The rotary and the DA are a surefire combination that will tackle any car you come across... Changing the "action" of the tool for your final polishing work ensures a swirl free finish down the road...




Hey Mike, I know watching an old Open Garage video you or Mike Pennington (forget which) mentioned that sanding scratches should always be corrected with a rotary with wool. That was back in the days before M105. Does the rule still hold true or does M105 on a cutting pad do just fine on a DA?



The fastest, most efficient way to remove sanding marks is with a wool pad on a rotary buffer with an aggressive compound.

You can remove sanding marks using a DA but it's never going to be as fast or as efficient because these types of tools use a

The Free Floating Spindle Assembly - The Story Behind The Story... (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/23995-free-rotating-spindle-assembly-story-behind-story.html)


So can it be done? Yes.

Would I ever attempt to sand down and entire car and then try to remove 100% of all the sanding marks? No.

It's already a ton of work with a rotary and it won't be any less work using a DA...


But it can be done, I have an article on this and note I used some very non-aggressive products....


Removing Orange Peel & Sanding Marks with the Griot's ROP and the Wolfgang Twins (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wet-sanding-cutting-buffing/21463-removing-sanding-marks-griot-s-rop-wolfgang-twins.html)

Griot's Garage 3" Mini Polisher - Extreme Demo - Warning! (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/product-reviews/22065-griot-s-garage-3-mini-polisher-extreme-demo-warning.html)


:)

[WRAPT C5Z06]

I saw on another site a guy post with pics removing 1500 grit sanding scratches with a DA, M105, and surbuf pads.