Pinnacle Cleansing Lotion questions

[sportscarhiatus]

Hi all... I was always intrigued by this product, and read some good reviews, but had some questions. Could you please help me out?

1) Is the function of this product to remove LSP's and prep the paint for LSP application? similar in function as to what a an IPA wipedown or washing with Dawn would do?

2) Is it appropriate to use this product (via PC or Flex) with a white LC pad on speed setting 5?

3) What's the level of abrasiveness of this product??? Am I actually cutting (albeit mildly) clear coat when using this? Reason for this question is because if so, then why not use a light polish like Menz PO85RD or M205??? What's the difference?

4) Does this product also fill in swirls like a glaze does, but doesn't actually remove swirls??? If it's cutting paint, I don't see why it would NOT remove swirls. Maybe it removes light swirls AND fills in the rest???

[Mike Phillips]

1) Is the function of this product to remove LSP's and prep the paint for LSP application? similar in function as to what a an IPA wipedown or washing with Dawn would do?


Except that IPA and detergent washes will tend to make paint look dull and applying a quality paint cleaner will make the paint look clear and glossy.




2) Is it appropriate to use this product (via PC or Flex) with a white LC pad on speed setting 5?


Sure, you might not need the 5.0 speed setting, maybe th 4.0

Keep in mind because you're not removing swirls with this product basically a few passes over the surface and you can move on to new territory.

You don't need to or want to be making "Section Passes" with a DA and this tool as that technique is for removing swirls.




3) What's the level of abrasiveness of this product??? Am I actually cutting (albeit mildly) clear coat when using this? Reason for this question is because if so, then why not use a light polish like Menz PO85RD or M205??? What's the difference?


It's non-abrasive. It does not compare to a product with abrasives. Think Pre-Wax cleaner type product.





4) Does this product also fill in swirls like a glaze does, but doesn't actually remove swirls??? If it's cutting paint, I don't see why it would NOT remove swirls. Maybe it removes light swirls AND fills in the rest???


It can fill a little, from the store page...

Pinnacle Paintwork Cleansing Lotion will restore and preserve your car's original beauty. (http://www.autogeek.net/pinpainclean.html)


Tech Note: Paintwork Cleansing Lotion will not remove paint or clear coat finishes. Likewise, it will not remove swirls. It makes swirls less noticeable or invisible by rounding over the top edge of the swirl, robbing sunlight of a sharp edge to cause a reflection.

Micro-fine fillers (1.4 micron) in the lotion then fill in the swirl.

When you wax over these fillers, most swirls will disappear. These swirls may re-appear as the wax ages and may be revealed under some light conditions (Fluorescent lamps are ruthless, revealing flaws and swirls that will not show under normal sunlight.).


Also note that the instructions for this product state to let the product dry to haze before removing...



Simply wipe it on, allow a haze to form, and buff gently.



Here's the directions for hand application...




Machine Application
(For easy application for novices or pros, use a Porter Cable 7424 dual action polisher.)


Wash the vehicle and towel dry.


Mist a white polishing pad with Crystal Mist Detail Spray to allow easier application. Pour a circle of Paintwork Cleansing Lotion on the pad.


With the machine turned off, spread the lotion over a small area.


Set the max speed at 4.5 or 5 and turn the machine on.
Polish in a figure-eight pattern until the lotion begins to dry or disappear.


Buff with a clean microfiber towel.


Continue to the next section until you’ve polished the entire vehicle.


Always follow Paintwork Cleansing Lotion with a coat of wax. Souverän™ or Signature Series II will give your vehicle a glossy, wet-looking shine.



And not just for you but for any forum member or lurker reading this..

How to clay, clean and wax paint by hand with Pinnacle Paintwork Cleansing Lotion and Pinnacle Signature Series II Carnauba Paste Wax (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/25218-how-clay-clean-wax-paint-hand-pinnacle-signature-series-ii.html)


How to use a hand applied abrasive polish or paint cleaner by hand (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/26612-how-use-hand-applied-abrasive-polish-paint-cleaner-hand.html)


:)

[sportscarhiatus]

Mike... thanks for the response. A few more follow up questions for you and the rest of the forum.

Quote:
It's non-abrasive. It does not compare to a product with abrasives. Think Pre-Wax cleaner type product.
Quote:
Tech Note: Paintwork Cleansing Lotion will not remove paint or clear coat finishes. Likewise, it will not remove swirls. It makes swirls less noticeable or invisible by rounding over the top edge of the swirl, robbing sunlight of a sharp edge to cause a reflection.

If it's non-abrasive, how does it remove LSP's and "round off" the top edges of swirls? Does it do so chemically, like a Klasse AIO? Or does it rely on the pad to perform the abrasion/removal?

And since it is recommended to use a White pad to apply the lotion, rather than a red finishing pad, isn't that technically abrasion? So therefore, since the white pad has some light cut to it, I would undoubtedly be removing "some" paint, right? Maybe be very very very little, but I'm still removing some. Why not use a red pad if the lotion is relying on something other than abrasion to remove LSP's and smoothen paint???

[SATracker]

Hey Mike, so does this Pinnacle Cleansing Lotion function kind of like Klasse AIO? I've always followed Menzerna Final Polish with a coat of KAIO, then a sealant. Works for me and so I was curious if Pinnacle Cleansing lotion might be something for me to experiment with sometime.

[sportscarhiatus]

Hey Mike, so does this Pinnacle Cleansing Lotion function kind of like Klasse AIO? I've always followed Menzerna Final Polish with a coat of KAIO, then a sealant. Works for me and so I was curious if Pinnacle Cleansing lotion might be something for me to experiment with sometime.

I haven't seen Mike respond yet, but that's what I am thinking... if the Lotion does not rely on abrasion to remove LSP's/clean paint, then it must be chemical, like AIO. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

And about your procedure, I don't think you need to perform the AIO step in between your polish and sealant. Your polish already cleans/preps the paint using abrasion. Following with a sealant, or an IPA wipedown (to make sure all swirls are gone) followed by a sealant, should be the next step. AIO would just be a wasted step, IMO.

[WRAPT C5Z06]

It's a chemical cleaner. If you want no abrasion, use a gray pad.

[Mike Phillips]

I haven't seen Mike respond yet, but that's what I am thinking... if the Lotion does not rely on abrasion to remove LSP's/clean paint, then it must be chemical, like AIO. Can anyone confirm or deny this?



Anytime you don't see me actively posting to the forum but you see me logged-in, that's a good sign I'm working on another project, like this,

Which products need to dry – The Car Wax Mentality (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/28593-products-need-dry-car-wax-mentality.html)


As to your other question, Paintwork Cleansing Lotion is non-abrasive, how it works is stated on the store webpage,


Pinnacle Paintwork Cleansing Lotion will restore and preserve your car's original beauty. (http://www.autogeek.net/pinpainclean.html)



Pinnacle Paintwork Cleansing Lotion will restore and preserve your car's original beauty. Paintwork Cleansing Lotion uses a combination of gloss-enhancing oils and micro-fine fillers to polish your car without abrasives.




Besides that, here's a recent article I wrote...


Factors that affect how aggressive or non-aggressive a product is... (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/28458-factors-affect-how-aggressive-non-aggressive-product.html)


Always remember it's not just the product that determines total correction ability...

Here's some other factors...


Application Material - Wool cutting pad or soft foam pad?
Application Process - Rotary Buffer? Or By hand? or with a DA?
Size of work area - Shrink work area downward in size for more correction power.
Product amount - In most cases you want to use an ample amount, do a search (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/search.php) on the word ample
Number of applications - Sometimes you may need to apply and work a product 2-3 times to achieve the level of correction you're looking for..

And most importnat...

Technique - Technique is everything...


But the other ones are important too...


:xyxthumbs:

[ScottB]

Hey Mike, so does this Pinnacle Cleansing Lotion function kind of like Klasse AIO? I've always followed Menzerna Final Polish with a coat of KAIO, then a sealant. Works for me and so I was curious if Pinnacle Cleansing lotion might be something for me to experiment with sometime.

Klasse AIO has some acrylic protection included, Pinnacles Lotion does not simply a cleaner. It is a must have product in my mind and P21S offers a pretty good one too.

[toxygene]

I have used the Wolfgang Paintwork Polish Enhancer prior to applying WGDGPS and had good results. Are these similar products? Is there any difference between the two?

[WRAPT C5Z06]

I have used the Wolfgang Paintwork Polish Enhancer prior to applying WGDGPS and had good results. Are these similar products? Is there any difference between the two?
They're basically gonna go the same thing. I'd use WG with WG, and Pinnacle with Pinnacle. :dblthumb2:

[toxygene]

They're basically gonna go the same thing. I'd use WG with WG, and Pinnacle with Pinnacle. :dblthumb2:

That was my thinking exactly ("system approach" as I've seen it called on this forum). Thanks for the confirmation.

[WRAPT C5Z06]

That was my thinking exactly ("system approach" as I've seen it called on this forum). Thanks for the confirmation.
No problem. If you used Pinnacle cleansing lotion before WGDGPS, it would be fine, but it's better to stick to the same brand just like you did. :props:

[SATracker]

To sportscarhiatus; The Klasse AIO thing, when I first started detailing I had a forum conversation with a guy I have a lot of respect for. We were talking about the oils left behind by some products and I had some questions about Menzerna products. The guy I was talking to said that KAIO would definitely remove all oils left behind, so I started using KAIO. Then one day I was real unhappy with the way a 2001 Red Civic turned out and by accident used 2 coats of KAIO; I really liked the result. I'll admit it might all be in my head, but after Menzerna Final Polish I use one coat of KAIO on most cars; 2 coats on the red civic. I know some guys think KAIO in useless/pointless but like Mike quotes, Find something you like and use it.