carbon fiber hood trouble

[slab e.f.]

So i have a carbon fiber hood that has gotten a nasty haze on it. I have been detailing for a while and thought lets just wet sand it. so i did, i took 1500 grit sandpaper and wet sanded then buffed it out with my PC7424xp and some CG 2.0 compound.it turned out great, but only for a week and a half. then it came right back. my question is, what can i do to make it not come back? ill try and cover all the bases here. it is gel coated VIS carbon fiber hood. i did wet sand and polish is out. then applied sealant to it as well. now the haze is back. WHAT TO DO?!? its making me crazy

[Fly bye]

Go back over it with some finer sandpaper http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/images/smilies/scratchhead.gif

[blueblimp312]

I read that reclearing the hood will help prevent the haze from returning

[BobbyG]

Finishes by rule don't just haze up and I'm wondering if there's something defective with the hood.


Is this a new or after-market hood?
Has it been painted recently?
Was the hood finished properly from the factory?

Gel coats don't shine very well on their own.

Is this a new car under warranty?

I think you need to determine what's causing the hood to haze.

[dublifecrisis]

In my short experience with carbon fiber ( i have both hood and trunk), it is easy to clear up with compounding and if it's really bad then wetsanding. You need to at least finish down with 2000/2500. It will make the compounding and polishing a lot easier. A good durable sealant afterwards is a must and then CONSTANT upkeep. Mineral deposits, sunlight etc seem to bring back the cloudiness within 1-2 months and it gets worse and worse until you polish out again.
Like I said, it's a new learning for me so I am going by my experience over the last 6 months. I bought a heavily modded VW that came with the carbon fiber stuff. It's not my personal taste but I know they cost a lot of money. I'm experimenting with different stuff to see if I can get a good maintenance schedule on it. Maybe after a thorough restoration, a monthly AIO like poli-seal, PB polish w-carbauba, cleaner wax etc...

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb70/uchessor/IMG_9427.jpg
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb70/uchessor/IMG_9429.jpg
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb70/uchessor/IMG_9428.jpg

[Mike Phillips]

So i have a carbon fiber hood that has gotten a nasty haze on it. I have been detailing for a while and thought lets just wet sand it. so i did, i took 1500 grit sandpaper and wet sanded then buffed it out with my PC7424xp and some CG 2.0 compound.it turned out great, but only for a week and a half. then it came right back. my question is, what can i do to make it not come back? ill try and cover all the bases here. it is gel coated VIS carbon fiber hood. i did wet sand and polish is out. then applied sealant to it as well. now the haze is back. WHAT TO DO?!? its making me crazy

Are you sure the Porter Cable polisher removed 100% of the sanding marks? It's possible but usually what happens is you make the surface shiny but if look closely, you'll see there are still sanding marks or sanding scratches in the surface.

Other than that I've worked on a ton of neglected carbon fiber hoods, beside compounding, they act like single stage paints i that they really like to be polished with an oily polish like the M80 Speed Glaze, #3 Machine Glaze or #7 Show Car Glaze and then seal up the surface.

Some compounds will have a drying-out or dulling effect to the surface they are used on because they use solvents as carrying agents instead of polishing oils.

Get some M80 Speed Glaze and re-polish the hood and the seal it with a quality paint sealant. One thing for sure, you will always have to maintain it to preserve a deep, clear looking finish. Polyester Resin gel-coats are very porous and can and will dry out and oxidize very easily. Something with polishing oils will penetrate into the resin and maintain a clear, darkness, which is what you want.

See this article for some related information...

The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/25304-secret-removing-oxidation-restoring-show-car-finish-antique-single-stage-paints.html)

This is key...
Saturation Application --> The First Application
This is a mostly unknown technique and that is to let the first application penetrate and soak into the paint for up to 24 hours before wiping the product off. The idea being to really apply the product wet and work it in really well and the walk away.

The idea is to allow the heavy concentration of oils to penetrate and seep into the paint for maximum saturation before removing the product and continuing with the process. In this case I finished applying the first application of #7 around 9:00 pm and then left the #7 to soak in until the next day. I started wiping the product off then next morning right about 10:00am.

Some will argue if this works or not buy my experience is that with a porous single stage paint it does in fact help. One thing for sure it can't hurt.

Paper Test for Capillary Action
If you place a few drops of #7 onto a piece of paper and then monitor it over a few days you will see the oils in the #7 migrate or seep away from the actual drop of product. It does this through capillary action and the same thing can work to your car's paints' advantage if it's a single stage lacquer or enamel paint.

I placed a few drops about the size of a nickel on a piece of standard printer paper around 3:00pm.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/859/7CapillaryAction01.jpg

The next day I took these pictures at approximately 10:00am, (19 hours later), note how the oils in the drops of #7 have migrated outward via capillary action.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/859/7CapillaryAction02.jpg

Feeder Oils penetrate or feed the paint
This same effect can take place in a single stage paint but not only will the oils travel horizontally, they will also travel vertically, that they will penetrate downward "into" your car's paint and this is where the term feeder oils comes from as the oils penetrate into or feed the paint. The result is they will condition the paint restoring some level of workability as compared to just working on old dry paint, and they will also bring out the full richness of color, something that will showcase the beauty of your car's paint.







:)

[dublifecrisis]

Thanks Mike. That helps a lot! I might try out a glaze today on my hood and reseal it.

[Mike Phillips]

Thanks Mike. That helps a lot! I might try out a glaze today on my hood and reseal it.



It's a specific type of oil that you want... an oil that's been around since the Model T


Below is an excerpt from this article...

The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/25304-secret-removing-oxidation-restoring-show-car-finish-antique-single-stage-paints.html)



The Secret of Number Seven
There is a way to restore single stage paints that is non-abrasive and as gentle as you can get using a product that’s been around since early paints were formulated. That product is called Meguiar's Mirror Glaze #7 Show Car Glaze (http://www.autogeek.net/meg7showcarg.html).

#7 Sealer Reseal Glaze = Show Car Glaze
Here’s a photo of a few bottles of #7 from my car wax collection. I have some older bottles from before WWII, but this picture shows the transition from when the name changed from Sealer and Reseal Glaze to Show Car Glaze.

http://www.showcargarage.com/gallery/files/1/800_M07Collection.jpg



Bringing the dead back to life...
Besides being used as described above, #7 is also famous for its ability to revive dead, oxidized single stage paints. This has to do with the unique feeder-oil formula created by Frank Meguiar’s Jr. back in the early days of Meguiar’s which was also the early days of the Automobile. Meguiar’s was founded in 1901 and for perspective, only a few years earlier in 1886, Karl Benz was awarded a patent for a gas-fueled car and it wasn’t until 1908 that Henry Ford introduced the Model T.

I don’t know exactly when #7 was introduced but I think sometime in the early 1920’s, like 1923 or 1924. While #7 may have been introduced in the 1920’s, the formula that became #7 was around even earlier, possibly back to 1901. Here's a collection of 4 very old Mirror Bright polishes; it is my opinion that the formulas used in these products were pre-cursors to what became #7 Sealer and Reseal Glaze.

Photos Courtesy of MeguiarsOnline.com
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/24OldMegsBottles.JPG



These oils bring out clarity AND the full richness of color in single stage pigmented paints...

Here's an example of mild oxidation on a yellow single stage enamel paint on a 1960 Ford Ranchero, on which I restored the paint a few years ago...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/763/1960Ranchero01.jpg

Here's what the paint looks like after the oxidation was removed and the paint was polished to a high gloss.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/763/1960Ranchero06.jpg

As it relates to single stage paints...

The life of the paint is in the oil... -Mike Phillips


When it comes to clear coats... basically all you can do is get them as defect free as possible so that they are clear and then you can see the color underneath the clear layer of paint. Totally different thing going on as compared to single stage paints...


Carbon Fiber Components that are "Straight Resin" react just like single stage paints, as do Gel-coats. Carbon Fiber Components that have been sprayed with an automotive clear coating don't react the same way, first the don't oxidize like straight resin, second the get swirly like clear coat paints and fail if not taken care of.

:)

[slab e.f.]

thanks mike. ill try the m80 on it.

to answer the questions that were asked.
im 99% sure all the sanding marks were out as i could not see them when i shined the light on the hood. also the next dat the sun hit it and it looked clean and swirl free.
i had a paint guy that does painting and touch uo work at the dealership i work at, and he seems to think there is something wrong with the clear coat gel. the hood is after market and was in ok condition at best when i got it.

im going to order some m80 and try it out this week sometime. ill post pics of how it turns out after and then in a month post prgress pics

[Mike Phillips]

i had a paint guy that does painting and touch uo work at the dealership i work at, and he seems to think there is something wrong with the clear coat gel.




There's two general types of carbon fiber components.


Straight Resin
Clear Coated

The higher end, or more expensive products will be clear coated as it costs more to coat the component after it's made versus just sell it.

Straight Resin Components will oxidize as that is the nature of polyester resin when neglected.

Clear Coated Components will either get swirls as that's the trend for clear coats, and/or the clear layer of paint will de-laminate from the resin.


What do you see on your hood?

Oxidation like in the picture above?

or

Swirls or De-lamination?


:)