Oxidized paint

[mastrjeff1]

I recently buffed out my whole car with Klasse AIO and got rid of the oxidation on the hood of my car. It looked good for a while, but the oxidation came back. Do I need to use a more aggresive compound/cutting pad? Don't have a picture, sorry. I just wanted to run this by you guys before I had to use a more aggressive compound. Thank you.

[Rsurfer]

I recently buffed out my whole car with Klasse AIO and got rid of the oxidation on the hood of my car. It looked good for a while, but the oxidation came back. Do I need to use a more aggresive compound/cutting pad? Don't have a picture, sorry. I just wanted to run this by you guys before I had to use a more aggressive compound. Thank you.
Although Klasse AIO has some protection it won't last very long. How long before you noticed the oxidation coming back? Did you top Klasse with a sealant or wax and lastly is your paint clear coated or single stage?

[mastrjeff1]

Although Klasse AIO has some protection it won't last very long. How long before you noticed the oxidation coming back? Did you top Klasse with a sealant or wax and lastly is your paint clear coated or single stage?

It came back maybe a week or two afterwards. I didn't top it with anything. It is a clearcoated paint. Thank you.

[Rsurfer]

It came back maybe a week or two afterwards. I didn't top it with anything. It is a clearcoated paint. Thank you.Should have lasted at least a week or two. Sorry can't help you,

[BobbyG]

I recently buffed out my whole car with Klasse AIO and got rid of the oxidation on the hood of my car. It looked good for a while, but the oxidation came back. Do I need to use a more aggresive compound/cutting pad? Don't have a picture, sorry. I just wanted to run this by you guys before I had to use a more aggressive compound. Thank you.

Klasse makes some great products but in my opinion they don't do allot in the way of paint correction or oxidation. To remove oxidation you'll need a buffer or polisher. I prefer a rotary initially then switch over to a DA polisher however every step below can be accomplished with one or the other.

My recommendation,

Wash
Clay
Swirl remover - Meguiar's M105 using a purple or yellow pad
Finishing polish - Meguiar's M205 using a white or green pad
Finishing polish - Menzerna PO85RD using a gray pad
Isopropyl Alcohol Clean
Sealant - Wolfgang Deep Gloss or Menzerna Power Lock Polymer Sealant
Wax - Collinite 845 or your favorite LSP

[Mike Phillips]

How old is the car?

Clear coat paints will oxidize but they do so very slowly as compared to a single stage paint.

Since I've been posting to discussion forums I would say about 95% of all people that start a thread about having a problem with oxidized clear coat, especially if it's turning white or opaque, and especially if it's happening after they do "something" to it... the problem isn't oxidation but clear coat failure.

It's for this reason I created the "Clear Coat Failure Archive" thread to archive pictures of cars with clear coat failure so that when there's a post like this instead of trying to guess what's wrong I simply insert the link and ask the thread starter to click the link, look at the pictures and see if any of the pictures in the "Clear Coat Failure Archive" thread resemble what they see happening with the paint on their car.

Here's the link to the thread I started here on AGO,

The Clearcoat Failure Photo Gallery Archive (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/rough-draft/19985-clearcoat-failure-photo-gallery-archive.html)

Here's the original thread I started on MOL, it actually has more pictures and the picture of the black car with the hood just starting to fail is probably one of the best or most valuable pictures in the thread because it's probably the one that looks like the pair on your car...

The Clearcoat Failure Photo Archive (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20411)


Check them both out and let us know...


Besides that you might want to try an old school pure polish as the oils will restore clarity to clear coats so the underlying color can shine through. Of course if you do have clear coat failure then any fix will be temporary at best as the problem is not topical but throughout the matrix of the clear layer of paint... in other words... stick a fork in it... it's done...


:)

[Pristine Image]

Mike, I noticed there was a question in the MOL thread asking if oxidation can occur on clearcoated paint that was unanswered. Can it occur in clearcoat?

I suppose my understanding is, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that in single stage paint oxidation occurs and is reversible (you can fix it) but in clearcoated paint there's clearcoat failure that cannot be reversed (need to repaint).

[BobbyG]

Mike, I noticed there was a question in the MOL thread asking if oxidation can occur on clearcoated paint that was unanswered. Can it occur in clearcoat?

I suppose my understanding is, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that in single stage paint oxidation occurs and is reversible (you can fix it) but in clearcoated paint there's clearcoat failure that cannot be reversed (need to repaint).

I think the key here is to determine whether or not the clearcoat has oxidized or failed. One can be corrected while the other must be repainted in order to correct.

[Pristine Image]

I think the key here is to determine whether or not the clearcoat has oxidized or failed. One can be corrected while the other must be repainted in order to correct.

So it seems the answer to my question is that clearcoat can oxidize.

[BobbyG]

So it seems the answer to my question is that clearcoat can oxidize.

Yes they do. Take a look at some of the links Mike provided above. He does a great job explaining in great detail how it's done and what to look for. It's why he makes the BIG bucks!!

[Mike Phillips]

Can it [oxidation] occur in clearcoat?


If you read my first reply to this thread I posted,




Clear coat paints will oxidize but they do so very slowly as compared to a single stage paint.



Clear coat paints can and do oxidize but it's not as fast or the same as a single stage paint which is where the term is more associated. This has to do with the type of resin normally used for older single stage paints versus the type of resin used for modern clear coats and also the porosity or permeableness of the resin.

Here's oxidation and oxidation removed...

The power in the after shots is created in the before shots (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/21216-power-after-shots-created-before-shots.html)

Before
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/763/1960Ranchero01.jpg


After
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/763/1960Ranchero06.jpg







I suppose my understanding is, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that in single stage paint oxidation occurs and is reversible (you can fix it) but in clearcoated paint there's clearcoat failure that cannot be reversed (need to repaint).

Oxidation is a topical defect and easy to fix. Clear coat failure is usually one of two problems,


1. The clear de-laminates from the basecoat

2. The entire layer or matrix of clear paint fails or deteriorates past the point of no return and this shows up as turning opaque or whitish.

Oxidation can be fixed because all you have to do is remove a little paint off the surface, it's a "topical" defect or a defect isolated to the very top surface. Clearcoat failure cannot be fixed because the entire layer of clear paint has deteriorated and is either flaking off the basecoat or turning white. Because the whiteness or opaqueness of the deteriorated layer of clear is throughout the entire thickness of the layer, abrading the surface, (like you would with a oxidized single stage paint), won't fix the problem because all you're doing is uncovering more opaque, deteriorated paint.

Make sense?


:)

[Pristine Image]

Oxidation can be fixed because all you have to do is remove a little paint off the surface, it's a "topical" defect or a defect isolated to the very top surface. Clearcoat failure cannot be fixed because the entire layer of clear paint has deteriorated and is either flaking off the basecoat or turning white. Because the whiteness or opaqueness of the deteriorated layer of clear is throughout the entire thickness of the layer, abrading the surface, (like you would with a oxidized single stage paint), won't fix the problem because all you're doing is uncovering more opaque, deteriorated paint.

Make sense?


:)

Yep, that makes sense. Thank you :xyxthumbs:

[marcatron]

Mike Philips,
My car currently looks just like your before picture, only in red. It's a '98 Toyota, and I don't know if it has a single stage paint job or clear coat failure. The paint never cracked and pealed, it just faded evenly and slowly over time despite regular cleaning and waxing. I gently polished a small section with some polishing compound and the paint looks good with the oxidation removed, and I expect it to turn out similar to your 'after' photo when I finish polishing the whole car. My question for you is...What did you do to protect the paint after you polished it? Did you use something like Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant or did you get the car clear coated? I imagine just waxing it would not be enough to keep the oxidation away.
thanks,
-Marc

[marcatron]

One more thing...the small area I polished turned my rag nice and red. I gently polished a small test area by hand because I was worried that a machine would strip the paint down to the metal. Did your paint do the same thing?

[Mike Phillips]

Mike Phillips,
My car currently looks just like your before picture, only in red. It's a '98 Toyota, and I don't know if it has a single stage paint job or clear coat failure.


Kind of like this Toyota truck?

http://www.showcargarage.com/gallery/files/1/RedTruckExtremeMakeoverBefore002.jpg


http://www.showcargarage.com/gallery/files/1/RedTruckExtremeMakeover006.jpg


The truck above is a 1993 Toyota Truck and the owner purchased it new, it's never been painted and the above is the original single stage paint. That means chances are VERY good that you have single stage paint and single stage paint is in my opinion easiest to work on and the most fun.

This car I buffed out last night has a newer single stage paint and the paint is so easy to work with and polishes easily to a real high gloss.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1009/CutlessAfterPolishing.jpg





The paint never cracked and pealed, it just faded evenly and slowly over time despite regular cleaning and waxing. I gently polished a small section with some polishing compound and the paint looks good with the oxidation removed, and I expect it to turn out similar to your 'after' photo when I finish polishing the whole car.


Single stage paint is very porous and this means it will dry out and oxidize easily. Maintaining a single stage paint that is on a "Daily Driver" means doing maintenance polishing and waxing more often than a non-porous paint like a modern clear coat.




My question for you is...What did you do to protect the paint after you polished it?

Did you use something like Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant or did you get the car clear coated? I imagine just waxing it would not be enough to keep the oxidation away.
thanks,
-Marc


Single stage paints react very well to the polishing oils found in Meguiar's pure polishes. The unique oil base used in these polishes was created by Frank Meguiar Jr. back in 1901 when he introduced his Furniture Cleaner and Furniture Polish.

He found these two products also worked exceedingly well on early automotive paints because early cars were painted with the same coating used in the furniture business, that is Shellac, Varnish and Nitrocellulose Lacquer Paint.

These polishes still work great today on single stage paints.

I just re-posted and extreme makeover I did when I ran the MeguiarsOnline.com forum here,

1960 Ford Ranchero - Extreme Makeover - M105/M205 Tag Team (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-n-shine/31839-1960-ford-ranchero-extreme-makeover-m105-m205-tag-team.html)

And it includes clickable links to the products, pads and tools I used.

We can help you restore the paint on your Toyota too but I would suggest you start your own, dedicated thread for your project.

If you're not sure how to "Start your own thread", I have an article for that...

How to start a new thread & How to reply to an existing thread (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tips-techniques-how-articles-interacting-discussion-forums/27449-how-start-new-thread-discussion-forum-reply-existing-thread.html)


Here's a good forum to start the thread in...

Auto Detailing 101 (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/)



:xyxthumbs: