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uniquedetailing
08-16-2010, 07:29 PM
Im currently doing a full wetsand, its my own car so im using it as a learning curve. Im using the 3m da with 1500 disks and 3000 trizact. I first started using the 1500 dry and this was removing the orange peel but the disks wasnt lasting too long, then i went onto the 3000, Im onto the correction stage and after 1st go over with M105 wool the paint is full of tight pigtails. i know that shouldnt be the case after 3000 if i sanded it properly. Should i be sanding damp, then sand longer using the 3000. What speed should i be going when using the 3000??? any tips info would be great. Thanks

Southern Stang
08-16-2010, 08:02 PM
Possibly something in the pad?

proudpoppa
08-16-2010, 08:05 PM
you need to sand more with the 3000. 3m 1500 always left pigtails for me and there are two options: sand it more with the 3000 or buff the snot out of it. personally i would rather do a little extra sanding, but those are pretty much your options.

uniquedetailing
08-16-2010, 08:26 PM
for the money you pay for the 3m trizact pads i hope they can get rid of the pigtales, im leaning more towards sanding more, cause buffing 3 or 4 times hard going

Rsurfer
08-16-2010, 08:45 PM
Im currently doing a full wetsand, its my own car so im using it as a learning curve. Im using the 3m da with 1500 disks and 3000 trizact. I first started using the 1500 dry and this was removing the orange peel but the disks wasnt lasting too long, then i went onto the 3000, Im onto the correction stage and after 1st go over with M105 wool the paint is full of tight pigtails. i know that shouldnt be the case after 3000 if i sanded it properly. Should i be sanding damp, then sand longer using the 3000. What speed should i be going when using the 3000??? any tips info would be great. Thanks
Are you dry buffing with 105 + wool?

proudpoppa
08-16-2010, 08:46 PM
good call surfer, didnt even think of that.

uniquedetailing
08-16-2010, 09:16 PM
How do you dry buff? do you mean still working the product after it has gone? Im talking about using the 1500 disk dry

Rsurfer
08-16-2010, 09:39 PM
How do you dry buff? do you mean still working the product after it has gone? Im talking about using the 1500 disk dry
Talking about buffing out the scratches. If the compound goes dry with a wool pad you can get pig tails. As you know not much work time with 105.

uniquedetailing
08-16-2010, 09:45 PM
The pig tales are from the sanding, from what i read is dust gets trapped under the disk when sanding this can create pig tails, I believe if i damp sand this would help and wipe of the disk more often. Then work this 3000 for a longer time

C. Charles Hahn
08-16-2010, 10:12 PM
Is there some reason you haven't tried 105 on a foam cutting pad or PFW pad? Those might actually be strong enough to take care of the 3000 grit scratches and could eliminate the possibility that the wool is causing your problems....

highline1164
08-16-2010, 11:37 PM
pigtails are very common with the 3M hook it DA sanding discs. Sometimes the Trizact doesnt remove enough material to remove the sanding scratches that the 1500 leaves behind. From 1500 to 3000 grit is too big of a jump. I sand and buff about a car a week and have learned the process that works for me 1000 DA, 1500 DA, 2000 wet block, then Trizact 3000. Each stage removes marks from the previous. It sounds like alot of stages, but in my experience, if your trying to get that flat as glass look and not have to worry about sanding marks coming back on you a couple weeks down the road, its well worth the extra time. And the 1500 not lasting that long is normal, you will use about half a box (25 sheets) during the process of one car. Probably the reason why 3M has now come out with a 1200 and 1500 Trizact. Of course this is all my opinion, but hope it helps in your endeavor.

Mike Phillips
08-17-2010, 08:19 AM
Im currently doing a full wetsand, its my own car so im using it as a learning curve.


That's a huge undertaking... hats off to you for trying to mast a new skill set.. Just out of curiosity, did you sand down the entire car before doing any buffing?





Im onto the correction stage and after 1st go over with M105 wool the paint is full of tight pigtails. i know that shouldnt be the case after 3000 if i sanded it properly.


The first thing you want to do is trouble shoot to know for certain that the pigtails are left by the #1500 grit and not the #3000

Is this factory paint? If so I'm sure you already know you need to tread carefully as the topcoat will be thin and hard.




Should i be sanding damp,



Are you sanding dry right now? Both steps?

If so, how are you cleaning the face of your sanding discs and panels?

I have friends that prefer to sand dry but they wear dust masks as you inject a lot of paint particles into the air and you don't want to be breathing this... I prefer to sand with water, it's messier on the floor but the water embodies the paint particle being removed and flows them onto the floor.

I'm also in the camp that believes you get more lifespan out of your sanding discs when you sand wet as the water will help prevent your discs or sandpapers when sanding by hand, from loading up and wearing out prematurely.

If you're dry sanding you can keep a clean terry cloth hand towel handy and hold it against the paper and then blip power on for a few seconds to agitate the disc against the nap of the towel and this will remove a lot of the build up paint on the paper and also help you to sand cleaner.

The worst problem with machine sanding is Pigtails, the worst problem with hand sanding is Tracers, it's pretty much impossible to avoid 100% and the most important thing you can do to avoid both types of problems is to work clean...

Again, my personal opinion is that wet-sanding or dampsanding is cleaner than dry sanding and this reduces the potential for tracers or pigtails.




then sand longer using the 3000.


If you're not dampsanding, the I would suggest to re-sand an area using a clear source of water, a spray bottle works very well for this and sand a new section and then inspect visually and then after buffing.

Removing pigtails, or tracers is just a matter of removing enough material to flatten out the surface WHILE not inducing more pigtails or tracers at the same time.



What speed should i be going when using the 3000??? any tips info would be great.


Are you using an air-powered DA sander or an electric DA Sander? I didn't see if or where you mentioned this?

If by air, at 90 PSIG you want to be at 3/4 to full throttle if dampsanding, I'm pretty sure dry sanding would be the same but I don't dry sand so maybe someone else will chime in if they feel differently.

If using an electric DA polisher then for major flat or flatish panels you want to be on the 5.0 to 6.0 speed setting, you want the pad rotating and you want to use a brisk arm speed, don't move the polisher slowly or stay in one place with the tool on.

Feel free to give me a call to discuss but do try to post some answers to some of the above questions in bold for other's to learn from...

:)

Mike Phillips
08-17-2010, 08:22 AM
To make it easy...

1. Just out of curiosity, did you sand down the entire car before doing any buffing?

2. Is this factory paint?

3. Are you sanding dry right now? Both steps?

4. If so, how are you cleaning the face of your sanding discs and panels?

5. Are you using an air-powered DA sander or an electric DA Sander?


Here's my cell...

760-515-0444


We'll do our best to see you though to sucess...


:dblthumb2:

uniquedetailing
08-17-2010, 07:39 PM
To make it easy...

Ok should of added more info when i started. This isnt the first time i have wetsanded but the first time i have used a da to sand. I am using a 3m finishing sander. The car is a 1962 Chevy impala, i painted and we have done a full body restoration, it ppg black. I layed down 3 coats of base and 4 clear. I have never done a full wetsand on a car just few panels here and there.

1. Just out of curiosity, did you sand down the entire car before doing any buffing?
Yes we started to sand by hand then thought we would try out the 3m line of disks,


2. Is this factory paint? No bc/cc

3. Are you sanding dry right now? Both steps?
When i first started i was sanding dry, lots of dust as you mentioned and yes i wear a mask. I was getting more cut from sanding dry thats why i opted for dry. I used the 3000 damp. I have now tried 1500 damp too, I am 100% sure that the pig tales are coming from dry sanding.

4. If so, how are you cleaning the face of your sanding discs and panels? i was using a microfiber to clean the disks and the same way with the panel

5. Are you using an air-powered DA sander or an electric DA Sander? I am using a 3m air sander, but i have only had it 3 weeks and it stopped working, that has put the project on hold

I did try the front fender to see what my process was going to be, and it came out perfect, I guess i need to go back and sand more cause the whole car has pig tails.

Thanks for your help


Here's my cell...

760-515-0444


We'll do our best to see you though to sucess...


:dblthumb2:l

Mike Phillips
08-18-2010, 03:41 PM
Hey David,

Good talking with you today, looking forward to some after pictures when you get the Impala worked all they way through the process...

Should look like a pool of black oil when you're finished...

:dblthumb2: