Just can't seem to remove the swirls...

[stebob]

Ok, I've now done 3 cars (I'm a noob for sure) including my '05 white Dodge Ram. I've also done a '03 silver Cadillac Deville and a '98 black Honda Prelude. None of them was I able to COMPLETELY remove the swirls and scratches from. I was able to GREATLY improve their appearance and I was the only one to still be able to see the issues left behind, but still. My truck turned out the best, but I spent more time on it. A LOT more time. It often took many, many, many section passes with extreme pressure with orange and UC (more on the process below). I never could actually stop the Griots with extreme pressure! Still, though..the swirls are still there. They are much smaller and finer in detail, but there nonetheless.

The Caddy turned out ok. Since it was silver it doesn't show up, get in the light and I can see the left over swirls and scratches. The Prelude looks 10 times better, but still swirls...it's the worse of the 3. I JUST got some 5.5" pads and did the Caddy with those. I used 6.5 on my truck and the Prelude. Honestly..I couldn't tell much difference between them other than the 5.5" fit better in some areas.

I'll tell you a quick bit about my process and see if you guys have any recommendations.

1. Wash with Meg Gold Class shampoo
2. Dry with Absorber and microfibers* following Absorber
3. Clay with Meg Smooth Clay
4. LC flat orange pad on Griot's polisher (setting 6) with Meg Ultimate Compound
5. LC flat white pad with Meg SwirlX (setting 5)
6. LC flat gray/black pad with Meg Gold Class 'nuba wax
7. remove wax by hand with microfibers*
*microfibers are yellow and purchased from Costco

I've ready many, many, many posts and watched Mike's videos several times over...I feel like I personally know the guy. I believe I'm doing it right. I use firm and often much more than firm pressure. More pressure than I know it should take. I have a slow arm speed. Seems slower than Mike's even. I do 6-8 section passes. I sometimes will repeat the 6-8 section passes 2 or 3 times, even done 5-6, with the UC (always with orange pad). I clean on the fly. Usually after a couple complete section pass segments. I do change the pads. I use 4 orange pads on a vehicle. I kinda go buy 1/4's. Each 1/4 gets a new pad unless I didn't tape off and hit the window trim real good and black out the pad...yeah..I've done that. STILL they are not being completely removed. I know I sometimes do a bit bigger area than 20" x 20", so maybe that has somethinng to do with it. I might go out 2-2.5 x 2-2.5". I haven't convinced myself the bit larger area is what is the difference between perfect swirl free vs. have them left over...I dunno. I just know I see guys using these same combinations and the pics look like there is not a scratch much less a swirl to be seen anywhere. I'm thinking I need a more agressive pad. I'm really thinking I need to start using yellow pads at 1st and then move to orange and white. Maybe it's the UC? I have a hard time believing that, though, with the results I've seen a lot of guys get them it.

Any tips? I have the patience and the desire and take the time to get this right...I guess I just haven't found the right combination. I just can't believe orange and UC isn't it, though. After 3 cars from 3 manufacturers that I'm sure have different hardnesses to them....

Frustrated and disappointed.. :(

[Rhudeboye]

I feel your pain. I have made so many passes on my black porsche and the scratches were still there. Most swirls come out but the water dmage doesn't. My 08 Camry however looks fantastic.

I will say this. When I went to the rotary it made things better. The power is a bit scary as it rotates FAST! But you cant bog it down so it will correct. I then followed it up with my GG and a wht pad as well as gray pad. Gave me a nice shine. Some scratches still in the Porsche but the Camry looked perfect. Keep in mind that the cam is only 2 years old as the Porsch is 15.

I would advise that you keep at it. Go in the garage from time to time and keep working a small test section. I like the hood. In time I think youll be happy. To get my porsch the way it is now, and Im still not completely happy, took me 3 days. Yes 3 freakin days of not driving it and working the panels.

[JonM]

I'm not going to lie, I didn't read your post entirely...but it just may not be your process that is restricting your work. The costco MF's you are using to remove the polish/compound and wax may be inflicting scratches back into your paint. I suggest purchasing a few more compounds (Menzerna) and some quality MF's. It will make a world of difference, and I speak from experience.

[Mike Phillips]

None of them was I able to COMPLETELY remove the swirls and scratches from. I was able to GREATLY improve their appearance and I was the only one to still be able to see the issues left behind, but still.


Still, though..the swirls are still there. They are much smaller and finer in detail, but there nonetheless.

4. LC flat orange pad on Griot's polisher (setting 6) with Meg Ultimate Compound



From what I've read it sounds like you're doing everything right.

Did you ever place a single strip of painter's tape on a panel and only buff on one side of the tape line?

This can just times make you feel better about the dramatic difference in before and after because without the tape line there is no distinct before and after line showing the difference.

Are the defects left in the paint Swirls or RIDS?


RIDS - The Definition of RIDS and the story behind the term... (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/24045-rids-definition-rids-story-behind-term.html)

Tracers Tracers - RIDS - Pigtails - Cobweb Swirls - Rotary Buffer Swirls - Holograms - Water Spots - Bird Drooping Etchings - Micro-Marring (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/22234-tracers-rids-pigtails-cobweb-swirls-rotary-buffer-swirls-holograms-water-spots-bird-droping-etchings-micro-marring.html)


If it's RIDS that's normal to not be able to remove them all and then the problem is they will stand out like a sore thumb because you remove all the shallow swirls surrounding them.

Another option is to get some Pinnacle XMT Heavy Duty Swirl Remover #4 (http://www.autogeek.net/pinnacle-polishing-compound.html)

This is a true compound and will remove pretty much anything that can be removed using a DA Polisher.


:)

[Mike Phillips]

One other thing you might try is shrinking the size of your work area down...

This works for,


Harder paints
Warmer and/or hot temperatures
Deeper defects
Less aggressive products (if a person doesn't have an aggressive product to start with)
All the above


Just and idea...


:)

[stebob]

Thanks for the replies, guys!

I had thought about the Costco MF towels, but I can rub them on the pain in an area that is clear and I don't see anything showing back up. I'll keep a close eye on that.

Mike,

Yes, I did do a test square and the results were quite an improvement, no doubt...on all 3 vehicles. It helps, but I just feel like I should be able to remove all the swirls like you do. ;) I do also see some RIDS, but there are also swirls there as well. Granted, you do have to get closer to the paint and see them as they are greatly deminished.

As far as the RIDS. I guess that's what they are. I guess I was expecting to see those occassionally, not quite as often as I do. And, I also feel that a lot of the scratches I see, not swirls, I should be able to remove. They just don't look that bad...

Thanks for the tip on the XMT. I see on the link they say the whole car shouldn't need this step. Do you feel the same way or should I just make it my 1st step to rid of these and move on?

I definitely know where I fail according to a lot of your posts is the work area. I know when I'm doing it, it's just hard to work such a small area and on my white truck I can never tell where I've been. I will make certain to reduce down next time, though.

[stebob]

Oh, and if I do go with XMT, I guess going by the rule I would want to start out with a white pad and not just jump into an orange pad..least aggressive 1st and all. :)

[Mike Phillips]

Thanks for the tip on the XMT. I see on the link they say the whole car shouldn't need this step. Do you feel the same way or should I just make it my 1st step to rid of these and move on?



XMT Heavy Duty Swirl Remover #4 should be reserved for,

When it's needed
Where it's needed

I like having it in my tool box of detailing supplies for a number of different reasons.

:xyxthumbs:




I definitely know where I fail according to a lot of your posts is the work area. I know when I'm doing it, it's just hard to work such a small area and on my white truck I can never tell where I've been. I will make certain to reduce down next time, though.


There's a class coming up at the end of July, maybe you can swing it?


:)

[stebob]

If it was in Indiana, I'd be there! :D However, I may have to settle for watching the video that is hopefully taken during the class. :)

[stebob]

So what do you guys think of trying out yellow pads?

[Mike Moore]

So what do you guys think of trying out yellow pads?

Never had much luck with the yellow pads.
Chewed 'em up, pads went flat and I still had lots of swirls.

You may wish to try the Surbuf Pads rather than yellow.
On those "stubborn" swirls they worked excellent for me!

[redg35]

Never had much luck with the yellow pads.
Chewed 'em up, pads went flat and I still had lots of swirls.

You may wish to try the Surbuf Pads rather than yellow.
On those "stubborn" swirls they worked excellent for me!
I second that notion as i love the surbuf pads.

[FinalTouchAuto]

You could also try stepping up to M105 as your first step instead of Ultimate Compound and see if you get better results.

If you cannot remove all swirls you need to either:

a) Use more aggressive product
b) Use more aggressive pad
c) Use more aggressive product AND pad
d) Change how you work the area (either longer, or shorter if you are dry buffing)

Something there is hindering your ability to fully correct.

[stebob]

Thanks, Final. Do you think 105 is more aggressive than UC? I keep hearing the cut is about the same. However, I did get some 105 on the way with the Megs sales going on and all. :)

[FinalTouchAuto]

I have not used Ultimate Compound, but I was under the impression that 105 was a "step" more agressive.

There is also a fine line when working on a car that is "how much time is it REALLY worth" balancing correction and time spent. Most people would be VERY satisfied with 90-95% correction.