Swirls on '08 Infiniti G37s - Self-Healing Paint ?

[katiefang]

Swirls on '08 Infiniti G37s - Self-Healing Paint ? (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/26609-swirls-08-infiniti-g37s-self-healing-paint.html)


Hi everyone! I'm a new member from San Jose, California. I own a Black 2008 Infiniti G37S Coupe. As you all probably know, black cars are a pain to take care of and the small swirls and scratches really bothered me, so I took it in to my Dealer for a detail since my dealer told me they had a really experienced detailer.

I paid quite an amount for that detail and when I got it back, it looked pretty nice at the dealer, and after I took it home and washed it with soap and water just once, my car had significantly more swirls than before, and the swirls looked more severe and are big and a lot noticeable than before the detail and I can even see it at night time.


I was very dissatisfied with my dealer's detailing, and I've been doing alot of research on the best detailers around the area that can possible recover my car from the damage and I came across this detailing forum hoping I would learn or find a solution, but I came across this forum and I thought I can get some opinions or pointers.


Below are the list of what was done to my car according to the dealers:
- Hand car wash with Meguiar's NXT car wash
-Clay bar clean painted surfaces with Meguiar's clay bar
-Polish paint with Meguiar's paint polish
-Seal paint with Meguiar's Wax.

Thank you for all you guy's time!

[detaildave]

Welcome to AG & sorry to hear about your experience @ the dealership. I can't say all dealerships do a bad job, but Most do. They do Production work, turn'em & burn'em, the detailer is probably given 2-4 hours to get the best results they can in that given time period. Also with respect to Time, it depends on the depth of the damage, spot damage or the entire vehicle. Also pic's help so everyone here can see the level of correction that needs to be performed to remove the swirls. From your story, it seems the detailer just used a filler to Hide the swirls, hence your first wash revealed their level of work. I would return it to the dealership & ask for my money back, then find a Pro in your area. Ask if they would let you help. Now if you really want to "DIY", be prepared to spend some $$$ & time to do it correctly, products & equipment. Read, watch & listen to the vid's & write up's here on AG. Should you decide to "DIY", go to a junkyard & purchase a practice hood to hone your skills. I'm sure some others here will chime in wth advice & good luck to you.

[tuscarora dave]

Do you know if this car has the "Self Healing Clear Coat"? If so it will need some special attention that most dealership detailers won't be able to handle in the time they are allowed to do a detail. The detailers at car dealerships (around here anyway) normally will do a rotary pass using a wool pad and some cheap "off the truck" production detailing product. I fix a lot of the mess that they create.

Here is a thread from another forum that deals with the Infinity "Self Healing" clear coat on a black 09 G37xS, it may shed a little light on what steps need to be taken to fix your car's paint. Good luck.

Anbuzero Detailed: 2009 Infiniti G37xS - G35Driver (http://g35driver.com/forums/care-detailing/314217-anbuzero-detailed-2009-infiniti-g37xs.html)

[Mike Phillips]

Here is a thread from another forum that deals with the Infinity "Self Healing" clear coat on a black 09 G37xS, it may shed a little light on what steps need to be taken to fix your car's paint. Good luck.

Anbuzero Detailed: 2009 Infiniti G37xS - G35Driver (http://g35driver.com/forums/care-detailing/314217-anbuzero-detailed-2009-infiniti-g37xs.html)

Thanks for posting this Dave...

:dblthumb2:

[Mike Phillips]

Katie contacted me via PM and asked about the shoddy work done to her car, the make, model and year rang a bell and I did a little research and the replied to here with this,




http://myg37.com/forums/car-care-and...lear-coat.html (http://myg37.com/forums/car-care-and-detailing/201421-self-healing-clear-coat.html)


Graphite Shadow : G35 and G37 General Discussions (http://forums.nicoclub.com/graphite-shadow-t483522.html)

In the above thread, posted by busterbrown,

I asked the salesman about the self healing paint and he said it was discontinued for 2010. His story was that the paint had to warm up good to self heal and wasn't working properly in the colder climates.


Infiniti Website
http://www.infiniti.com/global/en/in...out/technology (http://www.infiniti.com/global/en/infiniti-world/news-events/2010-06-01-gconvertible#/about/technology)

G35Driver - Threads Tagged with selfhealing (http://g35driver.com/forums/tags/selfhealing.html)



One of my best friends and one of the best detailers in this industry tried to buff one out to show car standards and could not do it. He took it to the Infiniti dealership and they were clueless as how to recommend creating a swirl free finish.

I would suggest copying and pasting your original PM to me to the "public forum" where myself and other can and will chime in to try to help.




My notes from a conversation with Lenny House, a Pro Detailer in New Jersey documents that Infiniti has had nothing but problems with this "idea" for a paint system and according to their own website the coating has been discontinued.

Problem is people like Katie may end up with the type of paint on a car they purchase.

My first recommendation was going to be the Wolfgang Line or Menzerna Line as to date what I've seen is that their polishes are pretty much fail-safe, that is if a paint system "can be polished" then these products can do the job.

The link that tuscarora dave shared shows that the detailing in that thread used,




Paint Correction:
PC 7424 XP
4" LC Yellow Pad
4" LC Orange Pad
4" LC White Pad
Menzerna Power Gloss
Menzerna SIP
Menzerna PO85rd
IPA


Worked to remove the swirls and restore a swirl-free, show car finish. So it we can hope that if Katie duplicates his process then she should be able to get similar results.

Interesting that Anbuzero used 4" pads for the buff-out?

My guess is that Katie should be able to fix her car's paint, assuming it's similar paint using,

Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover or Menzerna SIP using her PC 7424XP on the 5.0 to 6.0 speed setting working small sections at a time.

Follow this with Wolfgang Finishing Glaze or Menzerna Super Finish Nano PO106FA or with the PO85RD.

As for pads this is where you would do some testing to see which combination of pads it would require to remove the defects and polish out to a clear, high gloss.

For pads I would get Lake Country 5.5" flat pads in these colors,

Orange Light Foam Cutting Pad
White Polishing Pad
Black Finishing Pad

And then do some testing. I would test the white polishing pad with whichever one of these two products you get and see if this combination will remove the swirls and restore a clear finish. If it won't then you try a more aggressive pad. If it will, count yourself luck and polish out the car with the combination and then follow with the black finishing pad and one of these, Wolfgang Finishing Glaze or Menzerna Super Finish Nano PO106FA or with the PO85RD.

At this point you should have a clear, defect free finish ready to apply a wax or paint sealant over.

If you have any problems with your "Test Spot" then that will be a bad sign because the above combination of pads and products have fixed just about everything I've ever used them on as long as the swirls are not to deep.

What would be really cool is if we had an experienced forum member in the San Jose, California area that could come over and help you do the test spot and dial in a process that works guaranteed, then you could simply duplicate the process over the rest of the car.


:)

[katiefang]

Hey guys thank you all for the comments and I'm sorry for the late reply I've been pretty busy with school. Here are some pictures! Thanks again for all you guy's time.

http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt359/stran_kfang/IMG_0489.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/rotarybufferswirls_katiefang.jpg

http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt359/stran_kfang/IMG_0487.jpg

http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt359/stran_kfang/IMG_0486.jpg

http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt359/stran_kfang/IMG_0485.jpg

http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt359/stran_kfang/IMG_0485.jpg

[Mike Phillips]

Hi Katie,

In this picture, what you're seeing are what are called,


Rotary Buffer Swirls
Rotary Buffer Trails
Holograms or more specifically, Rotary Buffer Holograms

The above three terms are all used to describe the same problem and that is the scratch pattern inflicted into automotive paints through the improper use of a rotary buffer.


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/rotarybufferswirls_katiefang.jpg




It's not the tools fault, it's usually operator error and as you stated, you had your car buffed out at a "Dealership"




so I took it in to my Dealer for a detail since my dealer told me they had a really experienced detailer. I paid quite an amount for that detail and when I got it back, it looked pretty nice at the dealer, and after I took it home and washed it with soap and water just once, my car had significantly more swirls than before, and the swirls looked more severe and are big and a lot noticeable than before the detail and I can even see it at night time.



Your experience at the Dealership is what is called a Horror Story in the detailing discussion forum world and sad to say it's the norm for most dealerships and even body shops.

I'll stick by what I posted above as a cure for the problem and that is "if" the problem can be fixed, then the products and pads listed above have a good chance of working.

The first thing to do will be perform a "Test Spot", that is to test out the swirl remover and finishing glaze to a small spot and then inspect the results. If you can fix on small area then you can fix the entire car. If you can't make one small area look good then you'll be glad you didn't try to tackle the entire car and we'll have to try something else.

:)

[Mike Phillips]

Here's a few more examples of rotary buffer swirls...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/742/69ss3.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/773/rotarybufferswirlssema20091.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/773/medium/zigzagrotarybufferswirls01.jpg


It's a pretty common problem in the detailing world and it's one of the most common problems we do our best to help people such as yourself undo...


:)

[Mike Phillips]

***Bump***

Self-Healing Paint



:)

[roscoe]

i have a car with this self healing scratch resistant type paint i wont be using it again. i have been trying different pads and product. what i found to work for me is the sirbuff pads and menzerna power gloss applied a fair amount of presure to the pad the scratches from 3000 grit w/d sand paper are finally coming out the pad does get fairly warm to the touch. the paint has a high shine now and going over it with orange pad and menzerna power finish then po85rd with a grey pad the result is a high shine ready for wax. just charging up my camera will be posting some pics on my detail ive only done a test spot so far which was my complete roof. i used a pc 7424 xp polisher.

[loudog2]

I thought the self healing paint started in 2009 for the G. I have a 2008 G sedan with no self healing paint.

[AeroCleanse]

I remember a video using LC Compressor Pads and Optimum products on a Nissan GTR with self healing paint. So with any luck, here is it.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaOdfDM8OBU]YouTube - Paint Polishing[/video]

[Keatonus]

Here's a few more examples of rotary buffer swirls...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/742/69ss3.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/773/rotarybufferswirlssema20091.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/773/medium/zigzagrotarybufferswirls01.jpg


It's a pretty common problem in the detailing world and it's one of the most common problems we do our best to help people such as yourself undo...


:)

Am I the only one who almost puked from those pictures? Makes me think my car isn't that bad.

[Mike Phillips]

***Bump***

I'm bumping this for Paul who sent me an e-mail asking for help learning how to buff out his 2010 Black G37


Told him to hope and pray he doesn't have Infiniti's horrible mistake for a "paint job"


:D

[Bill1234]

WOW, that nissan look really bad. That might even need m105, I have seen this method by dealer detailers. Kinda like a pump and dump stock. They clean out eveything and do okay work and you are left with the bill. I would get some info on how to fix up your car.