Having difficult time removing swirls?

[rspratt]

Mike,
I have working on trying to get the swirls out of my black XLR and am having a devil of a time, I am using the swirl remover (Wolfgang) going over a 2 x 2 section 6 to 8 times and to very little avail. I have also done it up to three times on the same area but I get worried about the paint. Any suggestions. I'm shaking the heck out of the product so I know it's mixed well. Could I have a bad batch of swirl remover?

[Mike Phillips]

Mike,
I have working on trying to get the swirls out of my black XLR and am having a devil of a time, I am using the swirl remover (Wolfgang) going over a 2 x 2 section 6 to 8 times and to very little avail. I have also done it up to three times on the same area but I get worried about the paint. Any suggestions. I'm shaking the heck out of the product so I know it's mixed well. Could I have a bad batch of swirl remover?


Which pad are you using?
What speed are you using on the polisher
Which polisher are you using?

I know you attended our recent class here but jog my memory on the last question...


:)

[Mike Phillips]

Just to note...

Rick, I moved your question out of my articles page and created for you your own dedicated thread.


:)

[rspratt]

I dont know if you got my last answer because I'm not sure what moving to a thread means. I am a neophyte computer user but I'm learning. I used an orange pad with the red orbital machine I just purchased in April. I applied the polish on 3 or 4 and polished with 5 and 6 making the suggested amount of passes 5 to 6 6 using the pattern learned at the work shop. Of course some of the swirls came out but nothing like when we did it at the work shop and thisis a 2008 vehicle.

[Mike Phillips]

I dont know if you got my last answer because I'm not sure what moving to a thread means. I am a neophyte computer user but I'm learning. I used an orange pad with the red orbital machine I just purchased in April. I applied the polish on 3 or 4 and polished with 5 and 6 making the suggested amount of passes 5 to 6 6 using the pattern learned at the work shop. Of course some of the swirls came out but nothing like when we did it at the work shop and thisis a 2008 vehicle.


Watch this video and see if you're doing everything I do in the video, this is called a "Section Pass" and this is what you do to one area to remove swirls.



- Removing Swirls with a PC7424XP How to do a Section Pass - Porter Cable



I like to put a single tape line down and only buff on one side of the tape line to make it easier to see the before and after differences.

:)

[rspratt]

I know exactly what I am doing wrong. The first thing is I was using half the product (swirl remover) and the biggest transgression is how much slower you went over the passes than me. IT'S TOO LATE TONIGHT BUT I CAN'T WAIT TO TRY THIS TOMORROW. WILL IT MAKE A DIFFERENCE IF I HAVE ALREADY PUT THE PAINT SEALER ON SOME OF THE HOOD.. I DID THAT TO SEE IF IT WOULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE. OF COURSE IT DIDN'T. THANK YOU SO MUCH PHIL.

[Mike Phillips]

Hi Phil,

I'm sure you'll be successful!

Years ago I wrote an article on how to use the DA and I wrote it in reverse order, that is I wrote all the common mistakes people make and the posted the solutions in order. The recent video, article and the above video on how to do a "Section Pass" are all built off the below, it's still as accurate today as it was when I first wrote it.





Here's a list of the most common problems

Trying to work too large of an area at one time.
Move the polisher too fast over the surface.
Too low of speed setting for removing swirls.
Too little pressure on the head of the unit.
Too much pressure on the head of the unit so the pad quits rotating.
Not keeping the pad flat while working your product.
Too much product, too little product.
Not cleaning the pad often enough.
Here's a list of the solutions in matching order,

Shrink your work area down, the harder the paint the smaller the area you can work. The average area should be and average of about 16" by 16" up to 20" by 20" or so. You have to do some experimenting, (called a Test Spot), to find out how easy or how hard the defects are coming out of your car's paint system and then adjust your work area to the results of your Test Spot.
For removing defects out of the paint you want to use what we call a Slow Arm Speed. It's really easy to move the polisher too quickly because the sound of the motor spinning fast has a psychological effect to for some reason want to make people move the polisher fast. Also the way most people think is that, "If I move the polisher quickly, I'll get done faster", but it doesn't work that way.
When first starting out many people are scared of burning or swirling their paint, so they take the safe route of running the polisher at too low of a speed setting, again... this won't work. The action of the polisher is already g-e-n-t-l-e, you need the speed and specifically the pad rotating over the paint as well as the combination of time, (slow arm speed), together with the diminishing abrasives, the foam type, and the pressure to remove small particles of paint which is how your remove below surface defects like swirls or scratches. It's a leveling process that's somewhat difficult because the tool is safe/gentle while in most cases, modern clear coat paints are harder than traditional single stage paints and this makes them hard to work on. This is also why people get frustrated, they don't understand paint technology, all they know is their paint swirls easy and getting the swirls out is difficult and thus frustrating.
For the same reason as stated in #3, people are scared, or perhaps a better word is apprehensive, to apply too much pressure and the result of too little pressure is no paint is removed thus no swirls are removed.
Just the opposite of item #4, people think that by pushing harder on the polisher they can work faster and be more aggressive, but the truth is the clutch in the tool is a safety mechanism to prevent burning and will cause the pad to stop rotating, thus less cleaning or abrading action and once in a while this will lead a person to then post on the forum something like this, "Hey my pad doesn't rotate". There needs to be a balance of enough pressure to remove defects and keep the pad rotating but yet not too much pressure as to stop the rotating action. This balance is affected by a lot of things, things like type of chemical, some chemicals provide more lubrication and the pad will spin easier, curved surfaces or any raise in body lines will tend to stop the pad from rotating. This is where experience on how to address these areas comes into play or you do the best you can and move on. It's not a perfect tool, nor a perfect system, but it's almost always better than working/cleaning by hand.
Applying pressure in such a way as to put too much pressure to one side of the pad will cause it to stop rotating and thus decrease cleaning ability.
Too much product over lubricates the surface and this won't allow the diminishing abrasives to do their job plus it will increase the potential for messy splatter as well as cause pad saturation. Too little product will keep the pad from rotating due to no lubrication and there won't be enough diminishing abrasives to do any work. Again it's a balance that comes with experience, or another way of saying this would be it's a balance that comes with hours of buffing out a car to learn what to do and what not to do. Information like what you're reading here is just an edge to decrease your learning curve. Hope this is helping.
Most people don't clean their pad often enough and most of the time the reason for this is because they don't know they're supposed to clean their pad often and they don't know how to clean their pad. Again, that's why this forum is here to help you with both of these things. You should clean your pad after every application of product or every other application of product, your choice, most of the time cleaning your pad after every other application of product works pretty well. It enables you to work clean and enables the foam pad, the polisher and the next application of fresh product too all work effectively. How to clean your pad will be addressed below sooner versus later, but not at the time of this posting. (Sorry, I'm behind a keyboard, not a video camera
The first 4 are the most common. Can't tell you how many times we hear a comment like this from someone in the garage







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