question about D.A.

[dawnn]

Probally a dumb question but, I have an old 6 inch da sander will it be any good to polish
a car with? it looks like this:

If I can what size pad should I get? a 6 inch or 5 inch?
I will have to get a new backing plate any way....

[Mike Phillips]

Hi dawnn,

Since this is your first post, welcome to Autogeek.net :welcome:


Sure you can use it but you need a large air compressor supply it with enough air to polish a car, the small ones on wheels like a lot of people won't be able to supply the demand required by this tool.

:)

[Mike Phillips]

I just went out and did some testing with a 3M DA Sander and a Dynabrade DA Sander, (both Air-Powered), hang on and I'll post the results and some pictures.


:)

[dawnn]

thanks, yes i do have the compressor to go with the DA. I used to have a body shop many years ago and I still have most of my tools, except for my buffer witch I have some how managed to loose???
Believe me, it has polished many a car its day. I would probably be more comfortable with the buffer, as I had never thought about the da as a polishing tool. Still looking for the buffer!

[dawnn]

Hanging on!

[Mike Phillips]

Note, this wasn't an in-depth study, just some quick side-by-side testing I did on-the-fly on a Saturday afternoon after finishing some other projects like the Flits metal polishing project (http://http//www.autogeek.net/flmepopare.html) using the brass boat propeller seen below.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/DASanderTest04.jpg


On to the testing...

First, the air-compressor I'm using is a large Ingersoll Rand unit and it's able to easily maintain 100 psi air flow to the sander.

Ingersoll Rand Air Compressor
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/DASanderTest01.jpg



This shot taken immediately after running the sander...
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/DASanderTest02.jpg


From left to right...

3M 3/16 12,000 RPM RO Sander with 5" Backing Plate with 5.5 Surbuf MicroFinger Buffing Pad
3M 3/16 12,000 RPM RO Sander with 6" Backing Plate with 6.5" CCS Orange Light Cutting Pad
Dynabrade 3/16 10,000 RPM RO Sander with 6" Backing Plate with 6.5 Surbuf MicroFinger Buffing Pad
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/DASanderTest03.jpg


Between the 3M unit and the Dynabrade Unit, the 3M DA Sanger had more power or a better way of describing it would be to say that it was better able to keep a pad rotating under pressure.

This is key for the correction step because it's when the pad is rotating that paint is being removed and thus defects are being removed.


The two 3M DA Sanders are identical and we will be stocking these units.


6.6" Pad Test
I tested 6.5" foam pads and 6.5" Surbuf MicroFinger Pads using 6" backing plates.

With the air throttle wide open and with firm to extreme downward pressure I could not stop the Surbuf pad from rotating when the pad was held flat and when the pad was held on edge.

With the air throttle wide open and with firm to extreme downward pressure I was able to stop the foam pad from rotating both when the pad was held flat and on edge.

5.5" Pad Test
With the air throttle wide open and with firm to extreme downward pressure I could not stop the Surbuf pad from rotating when the pad was held flat and when the pad was held on edge.

With the air throttle wide open and with firm to extreme downward pressure it was very difficult to stop the foam pad from rotating both when the pad was held flat and on edge.


Summary
If you want to use a air-powered DA Sanger to remove swirls and scratches then stick with the 5.5" pads either foam or Surbuf Microfiber pads and you should be able to tackle most of what comes you're way.

The 6.5" Surbuf MicroFinger pads worked on both the 3M DA Sander and the Dynabrade DA Sander but the 3M unit did do a better job of keeping the pads rotating.

You can use 6.5" foam pads with the air-powered DA sanders but to keep the pad rotating you can't push as hard and you really have to focus on keeping the pads held flat to the surface.


My comments...
I was really impressed with the rotating ability of the Surbuf Microfiber pads when used on both of these air powered DA Sanders. To date, I've found the Surbuf Microfiber pads are best suited for correction work, that is removing defects as they can leave behind tick marks, or micro-marring like foam cutting pads can leave behind on some paints. So plan on following any correction steps with MicroFinger buffing pads with another polishing step using either a foam polishing or foam finishing pad and a light cutting polish.



Product showcased
3M Air Powered DA Sander - Coming soon...
Surbuf R Series 4 Inch Buffing Pads 2 Pack (http://www.autogeek.net/surbuf-4-in-buffing-pads.html)
Surbuf R Series 5.5 Inch Buffing Pads 2 Pack (http://www.autogeek.net/surbuf-55-in-buffing-pads.html)
Surbuf R Series 6.5 Inch Buffing Pads 2 Pack (http://www.autogeek.net/surbuf-65-in-buffing-pads.html)
6.5" CCS Foam Pads (http://www.autogeek.net/lake-country-ccs-6pack.html)
5.5" CCS Foam Pads (http://www.autogeek.net/lake-country-beveled-pad-kit.html)
5.5" Flat Foam pads (http://www.autogeek.net/lake-country-beveled-pad-kit.html)
6.5 Flat Foam Pads (http://www.autogeek.net/vcpad-6pack.html)
5.5" Hydro-Tech Pads (http://www.autogeek.net/hydrotech-da-pads-3pack.html)
6.5" Hydro-Tech Pads (http://www.autogeek.net/hydro-tech-pads-3pack.html)




:)

[dawnn]

so I could get any of the 5.5 foam pads? and the surbuf
and i need a 5.0 backing plate?
are the backing plates some type of standard threads that they would fit
right on the da, remember it's an old sander??
or do i need some type of adapter??

[Mike Phillips]

so I could get any of the 5.5 foam pads? and the Surbuf
and i need a 5.0 backing plate?
are the backing plates some type of standard threads that they would fit
right on the DA, remember it's an old sander??
or do i need some type of adapter??

All the DA backing plates offered on the Autogeek Store (http://www.autogeek.net/index.html) will fit any standard air-powered DA Sanger with a 5/16 spindle.


Backing Plates (http://www.autogeek.net/backingplates.html)


I included links to pads above. Keep in mind our staff here at Autogeek are experts at helping anyone get just the right products for their projects, just call us at,


1-800-869-3011


And someone can help guide to get right products for your particular needs.


I haven't used Surbuf pads with DAT products yet, (Diminishing Abrasive Technology), but I have used them with SMAT products with great results.


The SMAT Pack - Everything you ever wanted to know about Meguiar's SMAT products... (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/23561-smat-pack-everything-you-ever-wanted-know-about-meguiar-s-smat-products.html)

The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you! (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/23583-aggressiveness-order-smat-products-might-surprise-you.html)


Check these out... you would use the same techniques with an air powered DA Sander, be sure to keep the air hose from rubbing against the paint.

How to Remove Swirls and Scratches using the Porter Cable 7424XP (http://www.palmbeachmotoring.net/ascg-videos/porter-2-20-10.html)

How to do a Section Pass using a Dual Action Polisher - Key to Removing Swirls (http://www.palmbeachmotoring.net/ascg-videos/section-pass.html)


So use the Surbuf pads to remove swirls and scratches and then pick up some polishing and finishing pads for final polishing and applying wax or paint sealant by machine.

Since you're new, check my Signature Line for a link to a list of articles I've written, lots of topics covered, might be something you're interested in.



:)

[dawnn]

thanks, I thought you had mentioned that you used the surbuf when you did this test? I was just going to order some because you recommended them if not I will get the ccs smart pads in different flavors.

[Mike Phillips]

thanks, I thought you had mentioned that you used the Surbuf when you did this test?


I did, I even took pictures of them on the DA sanders. That's a pretty good indicator when the picture is posted by me because I'm pretty accurate with words and pictures as they both tell a story.

I also took them off and switched to the foam pads in the pictures.

I'm not sure where your confusion is? I've only tested SMAT products on Surbuf pads, I have not tested DAT products on Surbuf pads.

Point being you might want to stick with the SMAT products at least for use with the Surbuf pads. The DAT products might work with Surbuf pads, I just haven't tested them on black paint yet.


Does that help?


:confused:

[Mike Phillips]

Sometimes it's helpful to share...



What are you working on?
What are you trying to accomplish?



New car? Old car?

Trying to create a show car finish? Trying to restore enough shine to sell a car?


:)

[5.4 Shelby]

Just my opinion -

I have a 3 in mini air polisher. I love the action of the polisher itself, but, the air hose is a deal breaker for me. I rarely use it because of the weight and clumsiness of the air hose. I use it for wheels and small projects only.

[dawnn]

Ok, I have a white, (I read your post about the white paint) and the paint is pretty good, xterra 2002. I would love to have show car shine on it, although having read your post, I would not be able to get that....?? also have a light blue (very bland blue, does have some metal flake) caliber, both cars have good paint, of coarse would like to make both better. I have some swirls and spider webbing on the xterra.
I might also do some other peoples cars if I can get buy with the da, who knows? but for now thats what I have.

[Mike Phillips]

Just my opinion -

I have a 3 in mini air polisher. I love the action of the polisher itself, but, the air hose is a deal breaker for me. I rarely use it because of the weight and clumsiness of the air hose. I use it for wheels and small projects only.


Yeah... I didn't want to be a Debbie Downer but that's why I included this,



be sure to keep the air hose from rubbing against the paint.



For anyone reading this, the primary difference between the air hose for an air-powered DA Sander, (used to polish paint or sand paint), and an electrical cord attached to an electric DA Polisher, (when used to polish paint or sand paint), is that the air line, because it's under pressure is stiff and much thicker in diameter compared to an electrical cord which is flexible and small in diameter.

So if you're using a air tool, you just have to put a little more effort into managing the air line, it's not a HUGE deal but it is an issue that you need to manage.

You still do use practices like keep the hose over your shoulder, like you would a cord so you don't drag the cord against the paint possibly marring or even scratching it.


Like we taught in this class in the old training room...

Pictures & Comments from October 4th, 2009 Sunday Detailing 102 - Advanced Class (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/pictures-saturday-detailing-101/21005-pictures-comments-october-4th-2009-sunday-detailing-102-advanced-class.html)


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/759/FirstAdvancedClass017.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/759/FirstAdvancedClass021.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/759/FirstAdvancedClass022.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/759/FirstAdvancedClass027.jpg


Now where did I put that Cordless DA Polisher with tons of power and a battery that will last long enough to remove the swirls out of a 1959 Cadillac without changing batteries...

(Oh wait... technology hasn't come that far yet)


:xyxthumbs:

[Mike Phillips]

Ok, I have a white, (I read your post about the white paint) and the paint is pretty good, xterra 2002. I would love to have show car shine on it, although having read your post, I would not be able to get that....??


Ha ha... the actual point about the post about White Paint is that,

If you're car is a daily driver, parked outside at least part of each day, then over time the paint gets dirty, as in a film build of dirt builds-up on the surface and in the paint to some level. If you have a medium to dark colored car you might not see this build-up BUT even if you can't see it, knowing your car is a daily driver and exposed to the elements that when you go to work on it you need to either use a dedicated paint cleaner of some type or a cleaner/wax to remove the dirt staining to restore clarity to the paint and enable the protection ingredients to better bond to the surface.

:props:



also have a light blue (very bland blue, does have some metal flake) caliber, both cars have good paint, of coarse would like to make both better. I have some swirls and spider webbing on the xterra.


The key to removing swirls and scratches out of any paint system when using a DA Polisher of any type, is to... drum roll please....

Use good technique

Plus of course use the right pad and product, but if you have the right pad and product you could still be ineffective if you're not using good technique.

Good technique is basically,


Only tackling small, workable sections at one time
Using overlapping passes
Using firm downward pressure but keeping the pad rotating
Using a high speed, high enough to keep the pad rotating under pressure
Moving the polisher slowly, not quickly

That's the jist of it and I cover all of this here,

How to do a Section Pass using a Dual Action Polisher - Key to Removing Swirls (http://www.palmbeachmotoring.net/ascg-videos/section-pass.html)

There's other things too but the above list are the primary things. Also, when you move onto a new section... overlap a little into the previous section for good UMR

UMR = Uniform Material Removal





I might also do some other peoples cars if I can get buy with the DA, who knows? but for now thats what I have.


Be sure to check out some of the articles in this forum...

How to make money detailing cars (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-make-money-detailing-cars/)


:)