Griot's and a Corvette?

[bodavenport]

Does the new Griot's have enough grunt to polish out 2004 Corvette Clear using 5.5 pads? I have a few orange edge 4 inch pads?
Question # 2
Will I have to step up to M205 and 105 to get it done? I have some other polishes that I have been happy with but this will be my first corvette as I am a Mustang guy and I was referred by a mutual friend

[C. Charles Hahn]

C5 paint is usually VERY tough to work with -- notoriously hard clear to polish. The GG polisher MIGHT have enough power depending on how bad the defects are, but you'll definitely need 105.

Personally any time I have a C5 to do I jump straight to either my Flex DA or Rotary.

[Rsurfer]

Does the new Griot's have enough grunt to polish out 2004 Corvette Clear using 5.5 pads? I have a few orange edge 4 inch pads?
Question # 2
Will I have to step up to M205 and 105 to get it done? I have some other polishes that I have been happy with but this will be my first corvette as I am a Mustang guy and I was referred by a mutual friendDo a test section and you will know.

[ScottB]

Vettes are harder clears ... I would use Wolfgang Twins, Menzerna SIP and Nano, or Megs 105/205 preferably with 5.5 inch pads and a 5 inch backing plate.

[Harleyguy]

Just like Ron mentioned a test spot is going to be your answer.Plus you need to decide how much correction are you trying to achive.My vette laughed at my Pc and flex it was rotary all the way.105/205/85rd

[C. Charles Hahn]

Just like Ron mentioned a test spot is going to be your answer.Plus you need to decide how much correction are you trying to achive.My vette laughed at my Pc and flex it was rotary all the way.105/205/85rd

My uncle's '04 is that same way. It's one of the LeMans commemorative cars and had been severely hacked by the dealer he bought it from (used). Correction on that car was absolutely ridiculous.

[sullysdetailing]

Does the new Griot's have enough grunt to polish out 2004 Corvette Clear using 5.5 pads? I have a few orange edge 4 inch pads?
Question # 2
Will I have to step up to M205 and 105 to get it done? I have some other polishes that I have been happy with but this will be my first corvette as I am a Mustang guy and I was referred by a mutual friend

No, I tried it and you will need a rotary and purple wool to start. Then you can finish with the GG

[bodavenport]

Do you think that 5.5 purple wool on the GG would make a dent in it? I do not have a rotary so I would have to farm that part out but that is a possibility.

[sullysdetailing]

I would deff give it a shot. The orange 5.5 took oit about 60-70 percent of defects so the purple wool would prob do alot better then fallow with orange and white

[bodavenport]

Mike in your prof. opinion and experience does the GG version 2 have enough grunt to polish out a swirled corvette (04) with the purple foamed wool or would a yellow cutting pad even touch it? I guess I am going to have to step up to M105/205 for this one but might have to just pass on it if my equipment will not cut it.

[Mike Phillips]

Yes.

The "factory" clear paint on most newer Corvettes including any C4's I've worked on are notoriously hard but that doesn't mean you can't use a D.A. Style polisher to remove swirls and scratches, in fact I've worked with every Corvette Club in Southern California and taught many of each clubs members exactly this, that is how to use a DA Polisher to remove swirls and scratches and that was using first generation Porter Cable polishers, which don't have near as much ability to keep a pad rotating as the GG or the new PC or Megs units.

This was also using Meguiar's 6.5" pads and products like M83 and M80

We've come so far since those day....

The Griot's Garage Random Orbital Polisher acts like a rotary buffer in that as long as you use good technique, that is keep the pad flat to the surface, it will rotate and oscillate the pad at the same time and you can't stop it.

This is what a rotary buffer does, rotates a pad and you can't stop it. The benefit is the GG because it's oscillating won't but in Rotary Buffer Swirls, Holograms or Buffer Trails at the same time you're working the tool.

For speed purposes, the more aggressive pads will remove paint faster, but you can also use both light cutting foam pads and even polishing pads, just use good technique and that is basically hold the pad flat, move the polisher slowly and apply firm pressure.

Like shown here,


How to do a Section Pass using a Dual Action Polisher - Key to Removing Swirls (http://www.palmbeachmotoring.net/ascg-videos/section-pass.html)


How to Remove Swirls and Scratches using the Porter Cable 7424XP (http://www.palmbeachmotoring.net/ascg-videos/porter-2-20-10.html)


:)

[Mike Phillips]

One thing worth mentioning,

Before tackling the entire car, first do a Test Spot (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/24043-test-spot-story-behind-term.html) and make sure you can make one section look GREAT before going over the entire car.

The Test Spot should include your complete polishing process as that IS the process, not just the cutting or correction step.

On some paint systems, using an aggressive foam pad with an abrasive product will remove the defects, (that's what you want), but will leave behind micro-marring in the paint due to the oscillating action of the tool.

Some people panic at this step but then find out re-polishing the paint with a less aggressive pad and product will remove the haze or micro-marring.

So test you system, that is the pads, products, process, (process = too), and of course your personal skills, ability and experience, (these are factors too), and see if you can create the kind of results you're looking for, if not post back here what you're seeing and we will do our best to see you through to success.


:)

[detailjohn]

They might as well call it kryptonite. I pretty much use wool on every Corvette that I touch. Depends on the customer's expectations, but they usually don't mind spending the money on their baby.


John

[Mike Phillips]

You know I'm reading this thread and thinking...

"Didn't I just reply to this thread but I don't see my post?


And then I find a duplicate with a different title.

Here's the deal... you only need to post a "Topic" once to a forum. Posting a topic twice, even with a different "Subject" can cause confusion. I'll combine this thread with the other thread.


Thank you!


:)

[Mike Phillips]

Okay, I've merged the two threads...


I'll stick by what I posted...

I've removed the swirls and taught other Corvette owners how to remove swirls with first generation Porter Cable Polishers and 6.5" pads for at least 7 years while working as the class instructor at Meguiar's in Irvine, California.

If the swirls in a modern Corvette can be removed using the less effective first generation PC Polisher, 6.5 pads and DAT products like M83 and M80 then it you will be able to do it using a GG ROP with more aggressive pads and SMAT products.

For what it's worth, UC is just about as aggressive as M105 and and others that have used both thing it's a lot more user friendly as far as buffing cycle and wipe-of goes.

Buffing Cycle = The amount of time a product stays workable and effective on the surface.

The key to using a DA Polisher to remove defects out of any clear coat is simply using good technique.

I wrote this years ago on MOL but it still applies today...

Tips & Techniques for using the G110, G100, G220 and the PC Dual Action Polisher (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20874)

After teaching hundreds of classes here at Meguiar's, there are some common mistakes most people make when trying to remove swirls and scratches with a dual action polisher. Most of them have to do with technique.


Here's a list of the most common problems

Trying to work too large of an area at one time.
Move the polisher too fast over the surface.
Too low of speed setting for removing swirls.
Too little pressure on the head of the unit.
Too much pressure on the head of the unit so the pad quits rotating.
Not keeping the pad flat while working your product.
Too much product, too little product.
Not cleaning the pad often enough.
Here's a list of the solutions in matching order,

Shrink your work area down, the harder the paint the smaller the area you can work. The average area should be and average of about 16" by 16" up to 20" by 20" or so. You have to do some experimenting, (called a Test Spot), to find out how easy or how hard the defects are coming out of your car's paint system and then adjust your work area to the results of your Test Spot.
For removing defects out of the paint you want to use what we call a Slow Arm Speed. It's really easy to move the polisher too quickly because the sound of the motor spinning fast has a psychological effect to for some reason want to make people move the polisher fast. Also the way most people think is that, "If I move the polisher quickly, I'll get done faster", but it doesn't work that way.
When first starting out many people are scared of burning or swirling their paint, so they take the safe route of running the polisher at too low of a speed setting, again... this won't work. The action of the polisher is already g-e-n-t-l-e, you need the speed and specifically the pad rotating over the paint as well as the combination of time, (slow arm speed), together with the diminishing abrasives, the foam type, and the pressure to remove small particles of paint which is how your remove below surface defects like swirls or scratches. It's a leveling process that's somewhat difficult because the tool is safe/gentle while in most cases, modern clear coat paints are harder than traditional single stage paints and this makes them hard to work on. This is also why people get frustrated, they don't understand paint technology, all they know is their paint swirls easy and getting the swirls out is difficult and thus frustrating.
For the same reason as stated in #3, people are scared, or perhaps a better word is apprehensive, to apply too much pressure and the result of too little pressure is no paint is removed thus no swirls are removed.
Just the opposite of item #4, people think that by pushing harder on the polisher they can work faster and be more aggressive, but the truth is the clutch in the tool is a safety mechanism to prevent burning and will cause the pad to stop rotating, thus less cleaning or abrading action and once in a while this will lead a person to then post on the forum something like this, "Hey my pad doesn't rotate". There needs to be a balance of enough pressure to remove defects and keep the pad rotating but yet not too much pressure as to stop the rotating action. This balance is affected by a lot of things, things like type of chemical, some chemicals provide more lubrication and the pad will spin easier, curved surfaces or any raise in body lines will tend to stop the pad from rotating. This is where experience on how to address these areas comes into play or you do the best you can and move on. It's not a perfect tool, nor a perfect system, but it's almost always better than working/cleaning by hand.
Applying pressure in such a way as to put too much pressure to one side of the pad will cause it to stop rotating and thus decrease cleaning ability.
Too much product over lubricates the surface and this won't allow the diminishing abrasives to do their job plus it will increase the potential for messy splatter as well as cause pad saturation. Too little product will keep the pad from rotating due to no lubrication and there won't be enough diminishing abrasives to do any work. Again it's a balance that comes with experience, or another way of saying this would be it's a balance that comes with hours of buffing out a car to learn what to do and what not to do. Information like what you're reading here is just an edge to decrease your learning curve. Hope this is helping.
Most people don't clean their pad often enough and most of the time the reason for this is because they don't know they're supposed to clean their pad often and they don't know how to clean their pad. Again, that's why this forum is here to help you with both of these things. You should clean your pad after every application of product or every other application of product, your choice, most of the time cleaning your pad after every other application of product works pretty well. It enables you to work clean and enables the foam pad, the polisher and the next application of fresh product too all work effectively. How to clean your pad will be addressed below sooner versus later, but not at the time of this posting. (Sorry, I'm behind a keyboard, not a video camera
The first 4 are the most common. Can't tell you how many times we hear a comment like this from someone in the garage after demonstrating the correct technique



Again, at Detail Fest, I removed swirls and scratches with an audience watching using a Porter Cable DA Polisher, a 5.5" orange light cutting pad and Wolfgang TSR, so if this system approach will work then it should be no problemo using the GG with either 5.5" or 6.5" pads and more aggressive products.

Just follow the basics!

:dblthumb2: