issues with Klasse AIO, please help

[sportscarhiatus]

Folks... something weird that I didn't expect happened yesterday. I was removing some swirls yesterday using my PC. I did the following:

1) Menzerna Intensive Polish using orange LC pad
2) Alcohol/Water solution wipedown to remove compound residue/ensure swirls removed.
3) applied Klasse AIO to a section... and it caused scratches when I wiped it off!

This is what puzzled me. I know you're not supposed to use a cleaner wax like AIO after a polish, since it will remove the fillers from deeper scratches/swirls that compounding did not remove. So, since I used a compound, I thought that I would prep the surface with AIO before applying the polish. AIO is a wipe-on/wipe-off product, so after I applied it and removed it, there were scratches from where I wiped it off with a MICROFIBER!!! WHY???? I don't understand. I thought of some reasons.

a) I never really removed the scratches in the first place? I doubt this reason... because I used an alcohol wipedown to make SURE the surface was scratch/swirl free. And it was. Also, the "shape" of the scratches I left matched the motion of my removal via MF.

b) My MF caused the scratches? This might be the most likely cause, but if so, I don't understand why. I made sure the MF I used was new... soft, and free from dirt, etc. I use the same kind of MF's during my alcohol wipedown and during removal of other waxes/sealants. So if it scratched during AIO removal (naked paint underneath it too, mind you...so if the MF should scratch, now would be the time), it should scratch during ANY OTHER time I use an MF. But it doesn't.

c) Klasse AIO incompatibility with the Menzerna finish? too agressive for a "naked" clearcoat? I don't understand this either... because I use (and love) AIO for all my cars, and I've never had any "scratching" issues from using it. Granted, using it after a compound was the first time I've ever used it this way.

So what gives? Could you experts and fellow geeks please help me out? Right now I'm all scared with using my AIO at all :( I'll just apply straight sealant (WGDGPS) after buffing now.... but still, what did I do wrong? Why did the scratches emerge?

[BobbyG]

How deep are the scratches?

More than likely the scratches weren't totally removed during paint correction.

I generally use Meguiar's M105 compound followed by Meguiar's M205 Polish. Menzerna Intensive Polish is a 1000 grit compound where Meguiar's M105 is 1200 grit so I think you need something comparable to M205 once you're satisfied with the scratch removal.

I generally use in order:

Meguiar's M105
Meguiar's M205
Menzerna PO85RD

Microfiber Towels

Microfiber towels are not created equal and some actually feel rough to the touch. I have seen slight marring in the wax coat when buffing the final coat and those are reclassified as hand towels then get thrown out.

Try Cobra towels. I really like them and have great luck with them.

[sportscarhiatus]

How deep are the scratches?

More than likely the scratches weren't totally removed during paint correction.

I generally use Meguiar's M105 compound followed by Meguiar's M205 Polish. Menzerna Intensive Polish is a 1000 grit compound where Meguiar's M105 is 1200 grit so I think you need something comparable to M205 once you're satisfied with the scratch removal.

I generally use in order:

Meguiar's M105
Meguiar's M205
Menzerna PO85RD

Microfiber Towels

Microfiber towels are not created equal and some actually feel rough to the touch. I have seen slight marring in the wax coat when buffing the final coat and those are reclassified as hand towels then get thrown out.

Try Cobra towels. I really like them and have great luck with them.

Yeah, I think "marring" was more the right word to use. More like heavy marring maybe. Yeah, you're probably right about the MF's, but it stinks that I need to change all my MF stash to be Cobra brands... :(

[Shane731]

What kind of towels are you using now?

[sportscarhiatus]

What kind of towels are you using now?

They're a combination of MF's that I got from autogeek (cobra), and from Autozone, Target, etc...all MF's that touch my paint are in good shape (at least I think so).

[A4 1.8tqm]

1) Menzerna Intensive Polish using orange LC pad
2) Alcohol/Water solution wipedown to remove compound residue/ensure swirls removed.
3) applied Klasse AIO to a section... and it caused scratches when I wiped it off!

Menz Intensive polish isn't really a compound but more of a heavy polish. Klasse AIO is out of place. Your going to follow with a final polish right? So the AIO is a waste (and caused a problem).


I know you're not supposed to use a cleaner wax like AIO after a polish, since it will remove the fillers from deeper scratches/swirls that compounding did not remove. So, since I used a compound, I thought that I would prep the surface with AIO before applying the polish.

??? After polishing you DO want to remove fillers from any scratches, that way you can find and correct them before moving on. It's the main purpose of wiping with IPA. Forget the thought of using the AIO during the polishing steps. Klasse AIO leaves an acrylic layer behind which you would just be removing with the next polish step. You said ''I know I'm not supposed to..." but then did just that. Applying Klasse AIO is not a good way to prep for "working" a polish.



AIO is a wipe-on/wipe-off product, so after I applied it and removed it, there were scratches from where I wiped it off with a MICROFIBER!!! WHY???? I don't understand.

My guess is you had unbroken-down polish residue on the MF, or the MF has some contaminants in it. Do the CD test with any suspect MF's.



c) Klasse AIO incompatibility with the Menzerna finish? too agressive for a "naked" clearcoat? I don't understand this either... because I use (and love) AIO for all my cars, and I've never had any "scratching" issues from using it. Granted, using it after a compound was the first time I've ever used it this way.

Klasse AIO is not "too aggressive", it has no abrasive cut. It should be used on "naked paint" or to get it naked by removing old wax etc. and leaving a clean acrylic layer for your LSP to bond to.

So:
1- Compound/SMR (swirl mark remover)
2- IPA wipe and check your work
3- Polish to clean compounding marks and restore gloss
4- IPA wipe and check your work
5- Jeweling polish to enhance gloss (optional)
6- Paint cleanser/AIO to prep surface for LSP (last step product)
7- Apply LSP

Hope I helped :cheers:

[sportscarhiatus]

Menz Intensive polish isn't really a compound but more of a heavy polish. Klasse AIO is out of place. Your going to follow with a final polish right? So the AIO is a waste (and caused a problem).

I think I agree with this statement. The AIO is out of place.



??? After polishing you DO want to remove fillers from any scratches, that way you can find and correct them before moving on. It's the main purpose of wiping with IPA.

I don't think I quite agree to everything here. If there are scratches that are REALLY deep, obviously, I won't remove them... I won't remove ALL of the scratches, nor would I really want to cut that deep into the clearcoat anyways. There's going to be some stragglers that remain. Hence, for those that remain, the Polish/glaze fills in those scratches in an attempt to hide them, so to speak. So using an AIO actually removes them.


Forget the thought of using the AIO during the polishing steps. Klasse AIO leaves an acrylic layer behind which you would just be removing with the next polish step. You said ''I know I'm not supposed to..." but then did just that. Applying Klasse AIO is not a good way to prep for "working" a polish.)

I understand... but reason why I did that was because I thought that Menz IP was a pure compound. I did know it also filled it some scratches like a polish does. Thank you for informing me.



My guess is you had unbroken-down polish residue on the MF, or the MF has some contaminants in it. Do the CD test with any suspect MF's.

I am REALLY interested in you expanding on this. First off, what is the CD test for MF's? I would like to know what and how to do this. I might have a bunch of illegitimate MF's that need to be given up for adoption :laughing:

It is STILL very puzzling, that the heavy "marring" that occurred after I wiped off the AIO only happened when removing the AIO itself. Meaning, when I used the same MF to wipe off the Menz IP and wipe off the IPA, there was absolutely no marring. Then, as soon as I LIGHTLY wiped off the AIO, boom... there was marring RIGHT where I wiped it off... in the same direction/movement of my wipeoff motion. So I know for sure 100%, that it was the AIO that did that marring. As to why, I am clueless.



1- Compound/SMR (swirl mark remover)
2- IPA wipe and check your work
3- Polish to clean compounding marks and restore gloss
4- IPA wipe and check your work
5- Jeweling polish to enhance gloss (optional)
6- Paint cleanser/AIO to prep surface for LSP (last step product)
7- Apply LSP

Hope I helped :cheers:

I am curious about another thing... the IPA wipedown. I have a 50/50 mix obviously, but when I use that spray as a wipedown, I spray it on the paint, then wipe it off with an MF. My question is... is it normally "tacky"? hard to wipe down the IPA? meaning, it's met with some resistance? then afterwards, it kindda smears as I'm wiping? is that normal? or am I doing something wrong? bad IPA mix dilution?

Thank you A4, for your help. Also, if any other expert opinions are out there, please chime in (Mike??? ;))

[Emile]

You should polish like this:

-Menz IP w/Orange Pad.
-Alcohol wipe.
-Menz finishing polish w/finishing pad.
-Alcohol wipe.
-Klasse AIO, followed by sealant or wax.

Don't change your microfibers if they are good quality and they get the job done for your other vehicles.

Finally, I've been through a black 2003 G35 Coupe and a black 2006 G35 Coupe and the clear coat on those cars is soft. I remember that buffing off a finishing polish would often instill new scratches and it used to drive me nuts.

Meguiar's NXT Tech Wax 2.0 will become your best friend because it fills and hides scratches/swirls like crazy.

[sportscarhiatus]

You should polish like this:

-Menz IP w/Orange Pad.
-Alcohol wipe.
-Menz finishing polish w/finishing pad.
-Alcohol wipe.
-Klasse AIO, followed by sealant or wax..

I don't agree with IPA wipedown after the polish. I read somewhere (and I agree that it makes sense) that polishes have fillers that fill in deeper scratches/swirls that compounding doesn't remove. As I stated earlier, if I have deeper scratches that the Menz IP/orange pad combo doesn't remove, I don't plan on cutting deeper. So I am hoping that the final polish step with finishing pad jewels it up good, and fills in/hides some of the scratches that remain. Using an IPA would defeat that step.

Finally, your last step above states to use AIO as the last step before sealant/wax... but that's exactly what my problem is, and why I posted this thread. If I do that AIO, I have marring :( So what I did (for now), is after my final polish step, I removed the residue VERY CAREFULLY with my MF's... no marring, then I proceeded with the LSP.



Don't change your microfibers if they are good quality and they get the job done for your other vehicles.

Finally, I've been through a black 2003 G35 Coupe and a black 2006 G35 Coupe and the clear coat on those cars is soft. I remember that buffing off a finishing polish would often instill new scratches and it used to drive me nuts.

Meguiar's NXT Tech Wax 2.0 will become your best friend because it fills and hides scratches/swirls like crazy.

I forgot to state that the car I was working on when this issue happened was my wife's 2002 Civic... it had the black paint with blue speckles. I wish I took a picture of the marring. Maybe I'll do another panel tonight and take a picture for all of you to see what I'm talking about. But thank you for informing me about my G35's paint. Good to know. I will need to be VERY careful when I work on that next time.

As far as NXT tech wax 2.0... I hope I don't have to use that (though it's a good wax, don't get me wrong), but I like to use WGDGPS/4Star followed by Souveran ;)