New Guy lookin for SANDING advice

[Shaggy]

Just found this site and have been reading up. I do have a couple questions that I'm hoping to get some professional advice.

I recently received my car back from body shop. Car was stripped to bare metal, some minor body work and fresh paint/clear. Shop did a great job on body, panels and paint except that i'm finding several small areas with sanding marks.

Question 1 - what should i use to remove sanding marks (by hand)?

Question 2 - After removing sanding marks - what product(s) should I use... sealant? wax? both? Do you suggest using machine or hand application?

Thanks in advance.

[mackdaddyhibble]

Omg,a clean 1968-69 pontiac firebird,looks good already:props:

[dublifecrisis]

I would say either go back to the body shop and demand they fix the issue OR invest in a machine polisher and do it yourself.

I say get your own polisher. You're in the right place to keep that beauty looking its best.

Welcome!

[richy]

It really depends on how deep the sanding marks are...I would definitely go back to hte shop...that's not acceptable.

[Shane731]

M105 with a microfiber applicator:


Also took some pictures to show you can remove sanding marks by hand if you don't mind putting a little passion behind the pad...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/../gallery/data/834/RemvovingSandingMarksbyHand01.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/../gallery/data/834/RemvovingSandingMarksbyHand02.jpg


This can come in real hand if you want to be extra careful around a raised body line, especially if it's not your car...


:)


Quoted post taken from this thread: http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/off-topic/23776-offline-today-tomorrow.html. Hope this helps! :xyxthumbs:

[Shane731]

BTW, sweet car! :righton::awesome:

[Shaggy]

Omg,a clean 1968-69 pontiac firebird,looks good already:props:

Yo mackdaddy - close... she's a '67 and thanks.


I would say either go back to the body shop and demand they fix the issue OR invest in a machine polisher and do it yourself.

I say get your own polisher. You're in the right place to keep that beauty looking its best.

Welcome!

dublife - i have the portercable 7424 but have only used it to wax my boat. Would you use the ML105 with the portercable? taking the car back to the shop is not an option. Our 'relationship' did not end well. It's like the shop was rushing to finish the job b/c they were 6 mos late with delivery and I was bustin their balls to finish.


It really depends on how deep the sanding marks are...I would definitely go back to hte shop...that's not acceptable.

Richy - marks do not appear to be deep and are in locations that are not very visable. It's just that I'll know they're there.


M105 with a microfiber applicator:




Quoted post taken from this thread: http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/off-topic/23776-offline-today-tomorrow.html. Hope this helps! :xyxthumbs:

Thanks Ciera - I'm going to give the ML105 a shot.

Thank you all for you input.

[Mike Phillips]

Just to chime in...

The M105 works really well by hand to remove just about any kind of below surface defects, you just have to put a little passion behind the pad...

In the hood of the 1969 El Camino in the picture above, I used a microfiber applicator pad but you can also use foam.

Afterwards you want to either polish with a less aggressive product or apply a wax or paint sealant. Because that's a brand new paint job you should probably use a finishing wax or sealant.

How old is the paint?


Hang on and I'll get you a link...


:)

[Mike Phillips]

Here's a list of all the waxes, paint sealants and hybrids we carry, you want to stick with the "Finishing" variety, not the cleaning variety.


How To Choose The Right Wax or Paint Sealant for your Detailing Project (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/23263-how-choose-right-wax-paint-sealant-your-detailing-project.html)


:)

[Mike Phillips]

Here's the picture of your car...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/Firebird1.jpg


Here's the actual picture. I noticed you uploaded a picture to your gallery, once you do that all you have to do is "insert" the code to make a picture show up,

Here's an article on that,

How to insert an image from your photo gallery into your message (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles-discussion-forums/21313-how-insert-image-your-photo-gallery-into-your-message.html)


It pretty much works like the article explains on any forum,

:)

[Shaggy]

Just to chime in...

The M105 works really well by hand to remove just about any kind of below surface defects, you just have to put a little passion behind the pad...

In the hood of the 1969 El Camino in the picture above, I used a microfiber applicator pad but you can also use foam.

Afterwards you want to either polish with a less aggressive product or apply a wax or paint sealant. Because that's a brand new paint job you should probably use a finishing wax or sealant.

How old is the paint?


Hang on and I'll get you a link...


:)

Mike - I will try the M105 with an applicator.

Final paint was completed Mid August '09 - I took delivery Mid Sept and have done nothing to the paint. I've been letting it cure all winter.



Here's a list of all the waxes, paint sealants and hybrids we carry, you want to stick with the "Finishing" variety, not the cleaning variety.


How To Choose The Right Wax or Paint Sealant for your Detailing Project (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/23263-how-choose-right-wax-paint-sealant-your-detailing-project.html)


:)

Wow - that's a lot of good info there - and a bit overwhelming.

Would you suggest sticking with only a finishing sealant or only a finishing wax? I saw the "Forum Favorite package" suggests using a sealant then wax over it.

Thanks for all the help.

[Mike Phillips]

Mike - I will try the M105 with an applicator.

Final paint was completed Mid August '09 - I took delivery Mid Sept and have done nothing to the paint. I've been letting it cure all winter.


Have you inspected the paint in bright, overhead sun for swirls?

Sad to say, the norm for sanding and buffing from body shops is Swirl City, we call them Horror Stories here in the forum world and this can apply to both sanding and buffing work done at body shops or detailing work done at Dealerships and Detail shops.

The usually high-end cut and buff job, (which isn't really high-end in our world), includes sanding, compounding, polishing and hand applied glaze. The Glaze is water soluble and after one or two washes it's gone and the swirls show up.

Then out of desperation and frustration you'll see people join forums like this, share their horror story and ask for help to figure out how to remove the swirls on their own. The reason for this is because,

"If the folks at the body shop, dealership or detail shop couldn't do it right the first time they won't be able to do it right the second time and every time they work on your car you'll have less and less precious paint or film-build left on your car. (The stuff you just paid to have sprayed onto the car).

But I digress... let's hope you're one of the lucky ones...




Wow - that's a lot of good info there - and a bit overwhelming.

Would you suggest sticking with only a finishing sealant or only a finishing wax? I saw the "Forum Favorite package" suggests using a sealant then wax over it.

Thanks for all the help.


I'm putting Fusion over M21 on this car as we speak, after sanding and then putting the paint through a multiple-step machine polishing process.

After sanding, compounding/RB, polishing/RB, polishing/DA (before wipe-off of last application of M205

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/836/redelcamino_024.jpg


With M21 Synthetic Sealant
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/836/redelcamino_025.jpg


After wiping off M21
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/836/redelcamino_026.jpg


Next... Füzion
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/836/redelcamino_027.jpg

[Shaggy]

Mike - I'm satisfied with the paint - with the exception of the sanding marks and a couple dings. I have gone over this thing from top to bottom and there are definitely no swirls. This is how I found the sanding marks (under rocker panels, few around tail light assembly, under front apron). The areas with the marks are small and look like they missed them with the machine.

That el camino looks awesome! You've given me a lot to read up on and consider. I really appreciate your assistance.

[Mike Phillips]

Mike - I'm satisfied with the paint - with the exception of the sanding marks and a couple dings.




That's good to hear!

It's never fun hearing the opposite type of feedback on a custom paint job.

Here's your plan of action then, get some soft, foam applicator pads and work these last remaining scratches out by hand. You can exert a lot of pressure with just a few fingers pushing down on a foam applicator pad so that's a good thing and a bad thing, it's good because it means you can remove a little paint which is how you level the surface and make the remaining scratches or any below surface defect disappear.

It's bad because you have to be careful that you don't push down too hard like a caveman and put fingermarks in the paint. Polishing paint is an art form, not merely a grinding process, it requires the right products, application materials and techniques plus the human elements of care and passion. The good news is you can possess all of these things.

For working out defects by hand I really like these CCS foam applicator pads because they are round and thick. The thickness helps to spread out the pressure from your fingers and because they are soft they won't in and of themselves scratch the paint.

CCS Red Wax/Sealant Applicator Pads 2-Pack (http://www.autogeek.net/red-ccs-applicators.html)


Usually by hand you start out putting some pressure behind the pad and then just like a machine final polishing process you reduce your pressure for the last few passes to polish-out of the process.

Then after that, inspect the results, in some cases you can go straight to wax or in some cases you might want or need to re-polish the same area with a less aggressive product to refine the results of the first step product to a higher level and then go to wax.

Generic use of the word wax
Sometimes I use the word wax generically to refer to applying a paint protection product whether it's a wax or a paint sealant. On discussion forums some people will take issue with you is don't specifically type out the word paint sealant when referring to a paint sealant. :laughing:


Good luck and have fun and thanks for sharing your beautiful car with our forum members. :xyxthumbs:

Firechickens, err I mean Firebirds are very cool muscle cars that get respect wherever you take one.


Links to a few topics I mentioned above...

Fingermarks (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/20496-finger-marks.html)
Put a little passion behind the pad - Mike Phillips (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/23568-put-little-passion-behind-pad-mike-phillips.html)
Polishing paint is an art form... (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/22351-polishing-paint-art-form.html)



:)

[Shaggy]

Mike - that's great... I have my marching orders. While I'm reading up on your links and figuring out what ill use for a sealant or wax - I'm going to grab some of the CCS pads you mentioned and the M105 and work on those trouble spots.

I really appreciate the help. I'll let you know how I do with the M105.

Thanks again.