newbie - got a rotary

[nomercy346]

hey everyone, this is my 1st post on here...

Until now I had planned to buy a Dual Action polisher and all the stuff I need including pads, mf towels, polishes...

Coincidentally a professional detailer my brother knows through business is upgrading to air polishers, so he sold us his used rotary for next to nothing. I'm not sure if I should start with a rotary, though. I'm still considering buying the DA as well, especially as I read some detailers still use a DA for areas with a lot of edges and creases.

Would you recommend getting the DA polisher as well or would it be a waste of money as I'll never need it again? Can all jobs be done with just a rotary?
If I go with just the rotary I'd probably start really carefully and would probably get an old body panel from a wrecker to try and learn when it starts damaging the paint.

From the info I've read on here I had planned to get the following pads with the DA:
LC orange
LC white
LC blue
and Megs 105 and 205 polish. (Maybe Menzerna 85, too?)
Would I be able to use the same pads/polish with the rotary or would you recommend anything else?
I drive a titanium silver 2004 BMW 3 series and the other cars in my family that will get the detail treatment are similar vintage bimmers as well. I hope the 105/205 is enough for the relatively hard BMW paint?

lots of question, I know, but Thx in advance!

[zinc02gt]

hey everyone, this is my 1st post on here...

Until now I had planned to buy a Dual Action polisher and all the stuff I need including pads, mf towels, polishes...

Coincidentally a professional detailer my brother knows through business is upgrading to air polishers, so he sold us his used rotary for next to nothing. I'm not sure if I should start with a rotary, though. I'm still considering buying the DA as well, especially as I read some detailers still use a DA for areas with a lot of edges and creases.

Would you recommend getting the DA polisher as well or would it be a waste of money as I'll never need it again? Can all jobs be done with just a rotary?
If I go with just the rotary I'd probably start really carefully and would probably get an old body panel from a wrecker to try and learn when it starts damaging the paint.

From the info I've read on here I had planned to get the following pads with the DA:
LC orange
LC white
LC blue
and Megs 105 and 205 polish. (Maybe Menzerna 85, too?)
Would I be able to use the same pads/polish with the rotary or would you recommend anything else?
I drive a titanium silver 2004 BMW 3 series and the other cars in my family that will get the detail treatment are similar vintage bimmers as well. I hope the 105/205 is enough for the relatively hard BMW paint?

lots of question, I know, but Thx in advance!


Learning on a rotary is possible. Quite a few folks have. It'll be a bit harder IMO, but it's definately possible. Get a wool pad to learn the tool. Wool glides over the paint with ease. Buy a scrap hood or body panel. Try to get black so you can see all of your work happen. A rotary CAN be used on all paints, but some paints like the self correcting clear coats on the newer Nissans I've heard need the touch of a DA to finish correctly.

IMO, there is no need for an orange pad. A good wool pad will finish off as good if not better than an orange pad. AG doesn't have them, but I use 3M Superbuff III wool pads and a 4" Purple Foamed wool pad for the tight areas. The 9" 3M wool is a little hard to move around in some areas.

I ahve come to LOVE the 6" Kompressor pads on my rotary. The CCS pads work fine as well.

My regular line up consists of

3M Superbuff III Wool (M105)
6" Kompressor White (M205)
6" Kompressor Gray (P085RD)
5.5" CCS Blue (Ultrafina)
4" CCS Gray
4" CCS Blue
4" CCS White
4" PFW

I use the Meguiar's W64 backing plate for my Kompressor and CCS pads and the 2 3/4" backing plate for my 4" pads.

As long as you keep the RPM's in the 1500 rpm range you should be pretty safe. As long as you don't let the buffer sit in the same spot, it's pretty hard to burn the paint when proper measure are taken into consideration, i.e. taping edges and angles.

IMO, a DA is never a waste of money. On the Lambo I just did, I had to pull the old 7424 out to get black painted trime near the windshield and vert top. A hack had been to it before and left buffer trails/holograms galore. I was also warned that that trim burned real easy so I went with the safest method and used the DA with M205 and it finished up beautifully. EVERYTHING else got the rotary.

I ahve not done a Bimmer yet, but I have heard that they have pretty hard clear for the most part. 105/205 is great for all paints in the right hands and the right pad combo's.

Hope that answers most of your questions.

[nomercy346]

I'm still split between buying the DA or using the rotary only...
If you guys were in my situation would you spend the extra $$ on a DA?

Is the blue pad OK to apply Menzerna 85RD or is the gray pad the better choice in this case?

Currently my planned order would consist of:

3 - 6.5" orange CCS or wool pads
3 - 6.5" white CCS pads
3 - 6.5" blue CCS pads
3 - 4" orange CCS pads
3 - 4" white CCS pads
3 - 4" blue CCS pads
Megs 105
Megs 205
Menzerna PO85RD

Any more or fewer pads needed?

These would work with both the rotary and the PC, right?

[zinc02gt]

Get 5.5" pads. Then you can use them on both rotary and a PC if you deicde to get both. There is nothing wrong with getting both buffers. I've never really seen anybody on here using P085RD on a Blue pad; only Gray.

[richy]

85rd will work fine on a blue pad for jeweling. It's a financial decision for you really. Having 2 different tools is always better than only having one, but you may find that you get to favour one over the other and don't use the 2nd one that much. Get both, you'll be ready for anything.

[Mike Phillips]

I'm still split between buying the DA or using the rotary only...
If you guys were in my situation would you spend the extra $$ on a DA?


Definitely add a DA Style polisher to your arsenal. Besides using it to insure there are no swirls in the paint, you will come across a lot of jobs where you only need the DA polisher, not the rotary buffer.

For example if you're buffing out Daily Drivers you don't want to invest the time it will take to do a multiple-step rotary buffer process as you want to just use a cleaner/wax and going around the car once. For this a DA and a good cleaner/wax with either a polishing or cutting pad will tackle a lot of what you come up against.

See my comments in this thread about using Rotary Buffers only,

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/23739-need-help-removing-severe-swirls-08-mercedes.html






Is the blue pad OK to apply Menzerna 85RD or is the gray pad the better choice in this case?

Currently my planned order would consist of:

3 - 6.5" orange CCS or wool pads
3 - 6.5" white CCS pads
3 - 6.5" blue CCS pads
3 - 4" orange CCS pads
3 - 4" white CCS pads
3 - 4" blue CCS pads
Megs 105
Megs 205
Menzerna PO85RD

Any more or fewer pads needed?

These would work with both the rotary and the PC, right?


As long as you get a new 2nd generation DA Polisher as these are all better at keeping the pad rotating and it's when the pad is rotating that it is removing defects.

:)

[Mike Phillips]

I drive a titanium silver 2004 BMW 3 series and the other cars in my family that will get the detail treatment are similar vintage bimmers as well. I hope the 105/205 is enough for the relatively hard BMW paint?

lots of question, I know, but Thx in advance!



M105 is rated at being able to remove #1200 Sanding marks out of fresh paint with a rotary buffer, that' pretty aggressive. If the M105, a wool pad and a rotary don't remove all the defects out of the cured paint on your cars then it's likely the defects are too deep to start with.

Doing a "Complete" buff-out to a car using a rotary buffer is a lot of work, as in upper body muscles and lower back and leg muscles, so if you're new to the rotary buffer try to find a car or a panel you can practice on before working on any car that's "Important" to you.

:)

[nomercy346]

:thankyousign:
wow, thanks to everyone for your help... theres just so much to learn on this forum its incredible



As long as you get a new 2nd generation DA Polisher as these are all better at keeping the pad rotating and it's when the pad is rotating that it is removing defects.

:)

so the 2nd generation polishers will work with the 6.5" pads while the 1st gen should better stick with the 5.5" pads?

[Mike Phillips]

so the 2nd generation polishers will work with the 6.5" pads while the 1st gen should better stick with the 5.5" pads?



Technically the new generation of DA Polishers will keep any pad 7" or smaller rotating, it's just the smaller the pad the less the surface area the easier it will be for the tool to keep it rotating under pressure.

The older 7426, 7336, Meguiar's G100, (which is a re-badged Porter Cable first gen polisher), can rotate the larger pads as all us detailers have been using them for years it's just the newer once are dramatically better.

If you have an older polisher and you want to remove below surface defects then you want to stick with the 5.5" pads.

The 5.5" pads are also thinner and thinner pads spin or rotate better than thicker pads.

The spongy foam acts to absorb and dissipate energy, not transfer it into "action".

Action meaning rotating action.

Make sense?


:)

[Mike Phillips]

Anyone new to DA Polishers, including

Porter Cable (http://www.autogeek.net/dual-action-polishers.html)
Meguiar's (http://www.autogeek.net/meguiars-dual-action-polisher-g110.html)
Griot's (http://www.autogeek.net/griots-random-orbital-polisher.html)

Should watch these two videos...

Teaser Clip on Two Guys Garage (http://www.palmbeachmotoring.net/ascg-videos/porter-2-15-10-sc.html)
This one shows why they are so safe using the skin on my hand


This one goes over everything related to using the tool, it's kind of long but packed with details...

Extended Version (http://www.palmbeachmotoring.net/ascg-videos/porter-2-20-10.html)



:buffing: