Just a question regarding cleaner waxes and glazes

[Madkatz]

Hi, i just want to ask regarding product step application.

1. When detailing a car, which one comes first? Glaze or Cleaner Wax? See im planning on incorporating M80 Speed Glaze or Mothers Step 2 in my application of Klasse Twins, do i apply the glaze before AIO and then SG? or do i apply it in between? or after?

2. Lets say i have applied 2 coats of KSG on my car, and i noticed that there are still swirls? will the application of glazes like M80/M09 remove the previous layer of KSG?

3. Is Mothers Step 2 a polish or a glaze? or both?

The reason why i was asking is because i just recently polished my car and unfortunately missed some spots, so since i don't want to polish too often im thinking about filling and swirls as a solution, my standard quarterly detail session is fast approaching and my regimen includes application of Klasse AIO then KSG 2x coats with 24 hours curing time in between and then lastly topped with Collinite 915. Im just curious whether when to apply Klasse AIO and when to apply filler heavy glazes since im under the notion that Klasse SG should be applied after AIO and i was thinking applying glazes in between might affect the sealant bonding to the paint. See if im going to follow the AG flow chart i would be doing Klasse AIO then what ever filler heavy glaze i have then KSG and then Carnauba, do i stick with this?

Lets say i applied the glaze before i applied AIO and was successful in hiding and concealing light swirls, would Klasse AIO remove the fillers in the glaze and reveal the swirls again?

Thanks in advance

[Mike Phillips]

Since this is your first post...

Welcome to Autogeek Online! :welcome:




See im planning on incorporating M80 Speed Glaze or Mothers Step 2 in my application of Klasse Twins, do i apply the glaze before AIO and then SG? or do i apply it in between? or after?




Back to the problem with the words used to describe productxs...

M80 Speed Glaze is what Meguiar's calls a Cleaner/Polish. That is it contains diminishing abrasives to give it some cut embodied in a very rich base of polishing oils.

While it's possible it can fill swirls and scratches that's not its intended purpose and you would have better luck using a non-abrasive glaze.

The Klasse SG is pretty good at masking fine swirls, if two coats of SG isn't masking the swirls then more than likely a non-abrasive glaze will work either.

How are you applying your products? By hand or machine and if by machine what type of machine?

What are you working on?


:)

[Madkatz]

Thank you Mike for my first welcome in a post, i've been an avid follower of your tips and advices way back in Megs Forums, Belated Happy Birthday BTW.

Could you recommend non abrasive glazes that perform well in terms of filling? Is PB Blackhole considered a non abrasive filling glaze?


The Klasse SG is pretty good at masking fine swirls, if two coats of SG isn't masking the swirls then more than likely a non-abrasive glaze will work either.

Non-abrasive glaze will work? meaning applying non abrasive glazes will work better than KSG? or typographical error meaning it will not work either? Sorry i got a little bit confused.

Well i could apply it by hand, PC 7424 or with a Makita9227c and i have black pads for application but i prefer hand application with MF Foam applicator

I will be working on a Toyota Innova, its something only available in south Asian countires though, i don't know if you've seen one but just to give you a picture, its has a terrible reputation of having very soft paint that can be easily swirled even if you lightly brush over the paint with your pants and the worse thing is that the color is black, it also has a terrible reputation of having a very thin layer of paint.

Considering these factors, could you recommend any other product or method that would greatly improve the vehicles paint appearance in terms of removing or hiding swirls and light scratches without having to remove much clear coat or without having to polish? Im planning on ordering soon and im considering whatever product you might suggest that i still don't have.

Thank you in advance!

[Mike Phillips]

Thank you Mike for my first welcome in a post, i've been an avid follower of your tips and advices way back in Megs Forums, Belated Happy Birthday BTW.

Could you recommend non abrasive glazes that perform well in terms of filling? Is PB Blackhole considered a non abrasive filling glaze?



Non-abrasive glaze will work? meaning applying non abrasive glazes will work better than KSG? or typographical error meaning it will not work either? Sorry i got a little bit confused.



Typographical error...

I meant to say if Klasse SG wasn't masking the swirls then M80 isn't going to work either.

Sorry about the typo...

:)

[Mike Phillips]

Could you recommend non abrasive glazes that perform well in terms of filling? Is PB Blackhole considered a non abrasive filling glaze?

[QUOTE=Madkatz;292950]

Considering these factors, could you recommend any other product or method that would greatly improve the vehicles paint appearance in terms of removing or hiding swirls and light scratches without having to remove much clear coat or without having to polish? Im planning on ordering soon and im considering whatever product you might suggest that i still don't have.

Thank you in advance!

NXT Tech Wax Liquid is pretty good at filling and masking fine swirls. I haven't tested product for masking in a long time but usually any heavy paste wax that dries hard will mask swirls, maybe look into some of the Collinite waxes or P21S

Klasse SG dries hard, most people put a very thin layer on because it's very hard to wipe off if it dries. If you put a thick layer on you have to scrape it off it dries that hard. It's these kinds of characteristics that enable them to fill or mask shallow swirls.

Glazes, at least body shop safe glazes will tend to be water soluble, so even if they do fill if the car is exposed to wet weather or frequent washings they won't last very long.

The Poorboy's Black Hole states that it's basically a cleaner/polish or cleaner/glaze in that it says it cleans and fills, so this might be a pretty good product to try and then place a coat of wax or paint sealant over it.

It gets a lot of good reviews so you might give it a try and see how it works on your car's paint.

:)

[Madkatz]

Thanks for the reply. Sorry if that took some time but i have a follow-up question.

1. What would happen if i put on a glaze on top of KSG? could it still fill some of the swirls?
2. i love the results i get from Moms Step 2 in filling swirls. What would happen to my KSG if i put on some Step 2 and some wax on top of KSG? Would the mild polishes in step 2 remove my previous coating of KSG? or would my KSG still be there and Moms Step 2 fill what ever swirl is left behind?

Also another set of question regarding ultra finishing polishes

1. I saw in your chart that Megs 82 and Megs 205 are under the same category, would that mean that Megs 82 could also deliver great results as compared to 205?
2. So does it also mean that 82 can be used as a final finishing polish?
3. The PB blackhole falls under the same category but its more of a glaze, can i also use it for a finishing polish?
4. Any great recommendations for finishing polishes? Those that could really add to the gloss of black paint?

[termigator]

Klasse AIO is a pretty strong cleaner wax/sealant. My guess would be that it would remove anything left behind by either M80 or Mother's step 2. I could be wrong, but that's my thinking.

[Mike Phillips]

1. What would happen if i put on a glaze on top of KSG? could it still fill some of the swirls?


A non-abrasive, or non cleaning glaze or pure polish would but most of these are water soluable so it wouldn't last, depends upon the product and it's for body shops or the retail world.




2. i love the results i get from Moms Step 2 in filling swirls. What would happen to my KSG if i put on some Step 2 and some wax on top of KSG? Would the mild polishes in step 2 remove my previous coating of KSG? or would my KSG still be there and Moms Step 2 fill what ever swirl is left behind?


First, see my answer above, second anytime you move or push some kind of liquid over a coating of wax, it's possible you're going to "disrupt" the previous coating even if there are not cleaners in the product just because your rubbing a liquid over a thin coating.


Also another set of question regarding ultra finishing polishes



1. I saw in your chart that Megs 82 and Megs 205 are under the same category, would that mean that Megs 82 could also deliver great results as compared to 205?


These are both what are called "Cleaner/Polishes", they both work well but use differetn types of abrasives.




2. So does it also mean that 82 can be used as a final finishing polish?





3. The PB blackhole falls under the same category but its more of a glaze, can i also use it for a finishing polish?


Depends upon how "you" define the word polish. The label on PBB says it can remove fine swirls.



4. Any great recommendations for finishing polishes? Those that could really add to the gloss of black paint?


M81 or M07 are very popular for this and have been around for a long time.

Now days, a quality wax or paint sealant will do the saem thing but give you protection.

See this article,
How To Choose The Right Wax or Paint Sealant for your Detailing Project (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/23263-how-choose-right-wax-paint-sealant-your-detailing-project.html)

This part...


Finishing Waxes
Pinnacle Souverän Paste Wax (http://www.autogeek.net/pinsouvwax.html)
Pinnacle XMT 180 High Gloss Carnauba Paste Wax (http://www.autogeek.net/xmt-180-carnauba-wax.html)
Griot's Garage Best of Show Wax (http://www.autogeek.net/griots-best-car-wax.html)
Griot's Garage Carnauba Wax Stick (http://www.autogeek.net/griots-garage-wax-stick.html)
Finish Kare 2685 Pink Paste Wax (http://www.autogeek.net/finish-kare-2685-wax.html)
Collinite Paste Fleetwax # 885 (http://www.autogeek.net/collinite-fleetwax-.html)
Collinite Marque D’Elegance Carnauba Paste Wax #915 (http://www.autogeek.net/collinite-marque-wax-915.html)
Collinite Super DoubleCoat Auto Wax #476 (http://www.autogeek.net/collinite-super-doublecoat--wax-476.html)
Meguiar's Gold Class Car Wax Liquid (http://www.autogeek.net/mg7016.html)
Dodo Juice Supernatural Wax (http://www.autogeek.net/natural-carnauba-wax-200.html)
Dodo Juice Supernatural Wax Machine Stick (http://www.autogeek.net/car-wax-machine-stick.html)
Dodo Juice Banana Armour Hard Car Wax (http://www.autogeek.net/banana-hard-car-wax.html)
Dodo Juice Blue Velvet Hard Car Wax (http://www.autogeek.net/dark-hard-car-wax.html)
Dodo Juice Diamond White Hard Wax (http://www.autogeek.net/white-hard-car-wax.html)
Dodo Juice Hard Candy Hard Wax (http://www.autogeek.net/hard-carnauba-wax.html)
Dodo Juice Light Fantastic Soft Wax (http://www.autogeek.net/light-soft-car-wax.html)
Dodo Juice Orange Crush Soft Wax (http://www.autogeek.net/orange-soft-carnauba-wax.html)
Dodo Juice Purple Haze Soft Wax (http://www.autogeek.net/dark-soft-carnauba-wax.html)
Dodo Juice Rubbish Boy’s Juiced Edition Carnauba Wax (http://www.autogeek.net/special-edition-car-wax.html)
Dodo Juice Austintacious Soft Wax (http://www.autogeek.net/dodo-juice-austintacious-wax.html)
P21S 100% Carnauba Wax (http://www.autogeek.net/p21s-100--carnauba-wax.html)
P21S Concours Carnauba Wax (http://www.autogeek.net/p2concarwax.html)
S100 Carnauba Paste Wax (http://www.autogeek.net/s1capawax.html)
Mothers California Gold Pure Carnauba Car Wax (http://www.autogeek.net/motcalgolcar.html)
Poorboy's World Natty's Paste Wax (http://www.autogeek.net/pbnpw.html)
Poorboy's World Natty’s Paste Wax – BLUE (http://www.autogeek.net/nattys-blue.html)
Poorboys World Natty’s Paste Wax – Red (http://www.autogeek.net/poorboys-nattys-red-wax.html)
Dodo Juice Supernatural Wax, 250 ml. Refillable Hardwood Pot (http://www.autogeek.net/natural-carnauba-wax.html)
Collinite Liquid Insulator Wax #845 (http://www.autogeek.net/collinite-insulator-wax-845.html)
Mother's Power Wax (http://www.autogeek.net/mo8716.html)



Finishing Sealants
Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant 3.0 (http://www.autogeek.net/wg5500.html)
Klasse High Gloss Sealant Glaze (http://www.autogeek.net/klashiggloss.html)
Duragloss Clear Coat Polish (CCP) #111 (http://www.autogeek.net/duragloss-clear-coat-polish.html)
Finish Kare 218 Poly Wipe Sealant Conditioner (http://www.autogeek.net/finish-kare-218-sealant.html)
Griot's Garage Paint Sealant (http://www.autogeek.net/griots-garage-paint-sealant.html)
Four Star Ultimate Paint Protection Boosted with Polycharger (http://www.autogeek.net/four-star-ultimate-paint-protection.html)
Finish Kare 1000P Hi-Temp Paste Wax (http://www.autogeek.net/finish-kare-1000p-wax.html)
3M Perfect-It Show Car Liquid Wax (http://www.autogeek.net/3m-liquid-wax.html)
3M Performance Finish (http://www.autogeek.net/3m-performance-finish.html)
Meguiar's M21 Synthetic Sealant (http://www.autogeek.net/meguiars-21-synthetic-sealant-2-0.html)
NXT Tech Wax - Liquid (http://www.autogeek.net/mg12718.html)
NXT Tech Wax - Paste (http://www.autogeek.net/mg12711.html)
Liquid Glass Auto Polish (http://www.autogeek.net/liqglasautpo.html)
Poorboy's World EX-P Pure Sealant (http://www.autogeek.net/pbexp16.html)
3M Perfect-It Show Car Paste Wax (http://www.autogeek.net/3mpershowcar.html)



Hybrid Finishing Waxes/Sealants
Wolfgang Füzion Carnauba Polymer Estate Wax (http://www.autogeek.net/wolfgang-fuzion-carnauba-polymer-car-wax.html)
Pinnacle Liquid Souveran™ Car Wax (http://www.autogeek.net/pinliqsouvwa.html)
Mothers Reflections Advanced Top Coat (http://www.autogeek.net/wolfgang-fuzion-carnauba-polymer-car-wax.html%3C/p%3E%3Cp%3E[URL=%22http://www.autogeek.net/mo10116.html)
Poorboy's World EX Sealant with Carnauba (http://http//www.autogeek.net/pbex16.html)
DP Max Wax (http://www.autogeek.net/carnauba-car-wax.html)
Meguiar's Mirror Glaze #26 Hi-Tech Paste Car Wax (http://www.autogeek.net/meg26hitpasw.html)
Meguiar's Mirror Glaze #26 Hi-Tech Liquid Car Wax (http://www.autogeek.net/meg26hityelw.html)
Dodo Juice Blue Velvet PRO Hard Wax (http://www.autogeek.net/dodo-blue-velvet-pro-wax.html)
1Z Einszett Glanz Wax (http://www.autogeek.net/1z-einzett-glanz-wax.html)
Poorboy's World EX Sealant with Carnauba (http://www.autogeek.net/pbex16.html)
Finish Kare 2685 Pink Paste Wax (http://www.autogeek.net/finish-kare-2685-wax.html)

[WRAPT C5Z06]

On the topic of glazes, it's understood that they don't last long. Lets say you put a glaze on before a sealant, will the sealant "lock in" the glaze?

[christian900se]

Yes, it will lock in the oils and filler agents that were applied via the glaze.

[Lasthope05]

Yes, it will lock in the oils and filler agents that were applied via the glaze.

I do not fully agree with this statement. Sealants need a clean base to properly adhere/bond to the paint. When using a glaze with high oil content the oils sitting on top of the surface acts as a barrier. When a sealant is applied on top it cannot fully body to the paint. This in turn drastically reduces the sealants durability. As the glaze wears off so will most of the sealant thats applied on top. Myself and many others have personally experienced this problem.

The only glazes that should not effect a sealant top coat are acrylic based glazes(DWG/EZ Creme) as they too bond to the paint.

[Mike Phillips]

I do not fully agree with this statement. Sealants need a clean base to properly adhere/bond to the paint. When using a glaze with high oil content the oils sitting on top of the surface acts as a barrier. When a sealant is applied on top it cannot fully body to the paint. This in turn drastically reduces the sealants durability. As the glaze wears off so will most of the sealant thats applied on top. Myself and many others have personally experienced this problem.

The only glazes that should not effect a sealant top coat are acrylic based glazes(DWG/EZ Creme) as they too bond to the paint.


This is a very old topic, that is the topic of will a sealant or a glazes bond to an automotive paint if the paint has first been polished with a polish that contains some kind of oil in it.

It's kind of the analogy of painting a car applied to waxing a car, that is before you paint a car you need to carefully prep the surface by removing any substance that could interfere with the surface adhesion between the panel and the paint.

This topic came up a lot after NXT was introduced and I had just recently written all the copy for a brand new line of Synthetic Polymer Mold Release Sealants and so I asked one of the head chemists, with multiple patents on different types of polymer formulas a few questions and then shared with him the discussions that take place by enthusiasts and detailers about whether or not a car wax will stick to paint after it's been polished.

You can read his answerers in the below thread that dates back to 2005

Do Glazes/Fillers affect the bonding of a wax or paint sealant? (http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4831)



Please make up your own mind and figure out your own best method of applying a wax or paint sealant, it surely isn't worth arguing over...

:laughing: