Question regarding appropriate pads and compounding

[Shane731]

My car is a 1995 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera SL. For the mid 90's, this car and the Buick Park Avenue were the "low high-end cars" for GM, meaning they were the next best thing to Cadillac. This being the case, my car has the notoriously hard GM clear.

I am also a member on MOL, and back in November, myself and a couple members from Murfreesboro, Nashville, etc. got together just to put names to faces and hopefully learn something. One of the members that was there is a mobile detailer in Nashville. On my trunk were quite a few scratches. He tried several product and pad combos - each meeting with no success - to get the scratches out. Finally he resorted to M105 with a wool pad on his Makita to remove the scratches, and he did it with no hazing or hologramming (not sure if this was due to his technique, the hard clear, or both, but either way I was happy). Then he let me try M105 on a Meg's polishing pad with the PC7424 to try and remove swirl marks - the clear laughed. Then I tried M105 on a Meg's cutting pad, and that removed probably 90 - 95% of the swirls. Here's where my confusion starts. I mentioned these facts on MOL, however, I was informed that the Meguiar's Soft Buff 2.0 cutting pad is not really intended for the D.A., and can cause hazing and other problems. I am preparing to order Meguiar's new G110v2 here within the next week or so, so I need to know what pads to get. Is the information I received founded or no? Should I get the cutting pads? Is there a specific process I should be using with the polishing pads and skip the cutting pads? I am a newbie to machine polishing, and I doubt I could do any irreparable damage to that tough clear with just a D.A., but I want to make sure I do everything right. Thanks for the help!

[evilwrx]

Do you want to use Meg's pads, or are you open to another brand? I use 105 with Lake Country CCS pads with great results. If you need something aggressive use the yellow or orange pads and then finish off with 205 on a white pad. I use the KBM with 105 and 205 with these pads.

[Mike Phillips]

Hi Shane,

Meguar's does not recommend using thier cutting pads with D.A. Polishers. Here's the official statement on this,

W7207 Washable Foam Cutting Pad (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28355)

NOTE: The official recommendation for this new cutting pad is for use with a rotary buffer only. That said we know that a lot of people will use this with a dual action polisher and in most cases if you keep your speeds at or below the 5.0 speed setting it can be an effective cutting pad in addition to your choice of compound, paint cleaner, cleaner/polish or cleaner/wax.

If you choose to use this new cutting pad with a dual action polisher please do a test spot first with your products of choice and inspect the results to make sure you're getting the results you're looking for and if not then stop your process until you can dial in a process that does produce the results you're looking for.

There are many pant systems on the market both OEM and Refinishing, (Auto Body Shops), and each paint system can react differently to different levels of aggressiveness when it comes to pad and product selection. In some cases a cutting pad will remove the defects faster and more effectively but in order to create an acceptable finish you may have to do a second cleaning/polishing step using a less aggressive pad and product before going to wax.

So always perform a test spot first and dial in an acceptable process for your car's paint system before going over the entire car.


PLEASE REMEMBER: When you use a "foam cutting pad" on a D/A, you certainly increase the defect removal BUT you also increase the risk of hazing or micro marring on certain finishes. Both defect removal ability and hazing/micro marring depends on the paint, the user, and the product. Unfortunately, there is no absolute in this arena.


Part Numbers: W7207
MSRP: $14.00 each (U.S.A.)


http://www.meguiarsgarage.com/MeguiarsGarageNewsletterEdition00006_files/W7207_CuttingPad.jpg

[Mike Phillips]

Course cutting pads combined with an oscillating action can haze or micro-mar automotive paints.

Now follow me on this, they may remove the defects, (that's a good thing), but they can leave their own defects behind in their place. The defects they leave behind is the micro-marring or hazing, which is tiny scratches. This is no big deal if you're wise enough to understand you just replaced the previous deeper defects with more shallow defects and now all you have to do is remove the shallow defects with a less aggressive pad and product combo.

Problem is not everyone is wise enough to figure this out and will PANIC when they wipe off the product residue and see a hazy finish. They forget what the finish looked like before and now only concentrate on the new [shallow] defects and they just don't have the experience or wisdom to understand that now all they have to do is polish out the very shallow scratches.

If you read what I posted in my above reply, it states very specifically to do a test spot if you decide to use the Meguiar's foam cutting pad as it is a very aggressive cutting pad. This actually hold true for any cutting pad.

It actually holds true for ANY pad or product combination. Before ANYONE buffs out their entire car, unless they've already tested the paint and know how it reacts, then they should do a test spot and make sure the results they're seeing in one little spot are what they want and are hoping for.

Thousands of people, and probably hundreds of thousands of people use foam cutting pads with dual action polishers and get great results because they understand that polishing paint is a process, not always a one-step procedure.


:)

[Shane731]

So it is OK for me to use a cutting pad with M105 (obviously doing my test spot first) as long as I follow up with something like M205 on a polishing pad? I have heard of people doing 3-step polishing process:

M105 on a cutting or wool pad (depending on whether they're using a D.A. or a rotary)
M105 or M205 on a polishing pad
M205 on a finishing pad

I assume that the number of steps and the products used is dependent on the hardness or softness of the paint. So is that process acceptable? M105 on a cutting pad, followed by M205 on a polishing pad? I wish I could come to an Open Garage or Detailing 101 class, but sadly I'm a bit far away. Our other 4 cars are Hondas, so I'm not really worried there - I'm just a bit concerned that my car will probably be the one that gives me trouble. Thanks!

[Mike Phillips]

So it is OK for me to use a cutting pad with M105 (obviously doing my test spot first) as long as I follow up with something like M205 on a polishing pad?
!

Yes.

Do a Test Spot first. Dial in a process that meets your goals and expectations and then duplicate it over the rest of the car.

In your Test Spot, do each of the steps to the wipe-off of the LSP as this will be the entire process. Then check your results. Place a tape line down on the section you're working and only work on one side of the tape so you can easily see your progress and end-results.


:)

[Shane731]

OK, another question. I was looking at this combo on AG:
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/autogeek_2085_6411649

Would you see any problems with this process:

1. Wash
2. Clay
3. Re-wash
4. M105 on G110v2 with cutting pad
5. 1Z Einszett Pro Line High Gloss Polish on a polishing pad (using this polish instead of M205)
6. Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant
7. Pinnacle Souveran

Or should I use the 1Z Einszett polish after M205? Any thoughts on this? Thanks! Feed back please

[GMC83]

Hard to say. Your going to have to see how the finish looks after M105, Then do some test spots with M205 and the Einszett polish. But if I were you I would follow up with M205. Then use whatever wax or sealant you want after that.