Couple of Questions

[tiger 6]

After using Pinnacle's Advanced Swirl Remover with a PC, is it necessary to use a polish before sealing/waxing, or can one skip the polish step?
When polishing/waxing carbon fiber components, should the speeds of the PC be adjusted or should this work be done by hand? Also, should the carbon fiber parts of an engine bay be treated differently than external parts due to engine heat etc?
Thanks.

[Mike Phillips]

After using Pinnacle's Advanced Swirl Remover with a PC, is it necessary to use a polish before sealing/waxing, or can one skip the polish step?


How do the results look? If the paint looks GREAT then go straight to wax. I always teach people to do a Test Spot before going over the entire car. Make sure you can make one small section look GREAT with your product and pads and process and once you dial in a successful system then go over the entire car.




When polishing/waxing carbon fiber components, should the speeds of the PC be adjusted or should this work be done by hand?


Use the same speed if you're trying to do the same thing to the CF as you are the car paint.

What condition is the paint in and the CF in?




Also, should the carbon fiber parts of an engine bay be treated differently than external parts due to engine heat etc?
Thanks.


Not really. You can use a paint sealant instead of a traditional wax as some will say that a traditional wax is not a long lasting under high temperatures.


What are you working on?

Picture?


:)

[tiger 6]

Mike,
Thanks for the replies. I am working on a '01 Ferrari 550, a '08 Ferrari 430 Scuderia, and an '08 Viper ACR. The paint quality on the 550 is average-for a Ferrari. The car has 44'000 plus miles, was purchased new as were the other two, and has been garaged and covered in a conditioned garage as are the others when not being driven. The Scud is the subject of the question on engine bay carbon fiber treatment. The ACR is primarily a track car, less than 1700 miles, and the rear wing is made of carbon fiber. The Scud has ~3200 miles.
I detail my cars by hand twice a year, but decided this year to try my PC on a couple of them. I must say the results are, IMHO, much better even though it takes a bit more time. I have flourescent lights in my garage. From what I can see, the Advanced Swirl Remover with a Griot's orange pad and following the recommended 3 speed to spread and 5 to work the polish in has done an excellent job on getting rid of the swirl marks on the 550. Haven't worked on the carbon fiber parts of the Scud or ACR yet.
Time is not a problem for me-I just want the best results for the entire car each time I work on them.
Thanks again.

[Matt S.]

After using Pinnacle's Advanced Swirl Remover with a PC, is it necessary to use a polish before sealing/waxing, or can one skip the polish step?
When polishing/waxing carbon fiber components, should the speeds of the PC be adjusted or should this work be done by hand? Also, should the carbon fiber parts of an engine bay be treated differently than external parts due to engine heat etc?
Thanks.

I've ALWAYS had to follow with a finishing polish when using ASR. It leaves a substantial amount of haze in the paint.

[DARK HORSE]

Mike,
Thanks for the replies. I am working on a '01 Ferrari 550, a '08 Ferrari 430 Scuderia, and an '08 Viper ACR. The paint quality on the 550 is average-for a Ferrari. The car has 44'000 plus miles, was purchased new as were the other two, and has been garaged and covered in a conditioned garage as are the others when not being driven. The Scud is the subject of the question on engine bay carbon fiber treatment. The ACR is primarily a track car, less than 1700 miles, and the rear wing is made of carbon fiber. The Scud has ~3200 miles.
I detail my cars by hand twice a year, but decided this year to try my PC on a couple of them. I must say the results are, IMHO, much better even though it takes a bit more time. I have flourescent lights in my garage. From what I can see, the Advanced Swirl Remover with a Griot's orange pad and following the recommended 3 speed to spread and 5 to work the polish in has done an excellent job on getting rid of the swirl marks on the 550. Haven't worked on the carbon fiber parts of the Scud or ACR yet.
Time is not a problem for me-I just want the best results for the entire car each time I work on them.
Thanks again.

With those kinds of vehicles why would you ever even consider skipping a finishing polish??? Use a finishing polish, you'll be VERY glad you did:props:

[Mike Phillips]

Mike,
Thanks for the replies. I am working on a , a '08 Ferrari 430 Scuderia, and an '08 Viper ACR.


So a couple of run-of-the-mill red 2-doors? :D

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/Ferrari_430_Scuderia3.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/medium/550a.jpg






The Scud is the subject of the question on engine bay carbon fiber treatment.

The ACR is primarily a track car, less than 1700 miles, and the rear wing is made of carbon fiber.


There's 3 kinds of CF that I know of, there's glossy carbon fiber and matte carbon fiber and with glossy carbon fiber there's two sub categories, coated and un-coated. Most non-coated carbon fiber components are made using polyester resin, some are made using epoxy. You can buff this just like you would paint and you want to keep it wax often or it will oxidize and turn dull. Some carbon fiber component are clear coated with clear coat paint like you find on a car and this keeps the polyester resin from oxidizing but now your back to swirl problems just like you have with a clear coated car. You can run into de-lamination problems and clear coat failure problems with coated CF components.

The jist of this is if the component was shiny or glossy when new then keep it polished and waxed. Any good swirl mark remover will work great on shiny carbon fiber products along with a cutting or polishing pad on the 5.0 speed setting.

Forum consensus is that synthetic polymer paint protectant last longer and protect better than traditional Carnauba wax type products so for the engine compartment maybe look into using a synthetic paint sealant. (http://www.autogeek.net/was.html)






I detail my cars by hand twice a year, but decided this year to try my PC on a couple of them. I must say the results are, IMHO, much better even though it takes a bit more time.



The problem with working by hand is clear coat paints tend to be harder than traditional single stage paints, this really only means something to people that have hand-rubbed single stage paints like me but it's the only comparison I can think of that makes sense so that's why I alway type this in threads and ever wrote an article about it here,



With the PC you're applying even pressure over the entire face of the pad and the machine never gets tired. With you hand you usually have 4 pressure point, each one about the size of dime to a nickle and your hand gets tired. So the machine will always produce a better looking finish than your hand.





I have fluorescent lights in my garage. From what I can see, the Advanced Swirl Remover with a Griot's orange pad and following the recommended 3 speed to spread and 5 to work the polish in has done an excellent job on getting rid of the swirl marks on the 550.


The Advanced Swirl Remover is a very light swirl mark remover and you would probably appreciate something that has a little more bit yet is still very easy to work with, we carry a lot of great products and I'm guessing you want to stick with some fairly light cutting products that are easy to use as you become more familiar with your Porter Cable.


Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover and Meguiar's SwirlX is a very easy to use products that have the ability to remover some fairly decent swirls while finishing out very nice, in fact some people would go straight to wax after wipe-off of either of these two products and they are very easy to use and wipe-off is very easy.

The Wolfgang TSR is made by Menzerna and it has a long buffing cycle which makes it easy to work with and easy to get great results and wipe off is easy and I know that's not a part of the correction process but anytime a product is difficult to wipe off it makes the job hard and you risk putting toweling marks back into the paint which s never fun.

If you want to step up to some more aggressive products then we can look at some of the polishes in the Menzerna line or the Meguiar's line or even the 3M line. I you have a preference let us know and we can work that direction.






Haven't worked on the carbon fiber parts of the Scud or ACR yet.
Time is not a problem for me-I just want the best results for the entire car each time I work on them.
Thanks again.

Carbon Fiber components are easy to work on, I've had the good fortune of working on a TON of both coated and uncoated Carbon Fiber components during my job in SoCal running the Meguiar's Online forum and teaching a majority of all their classes. There's a real larger and strong Tuner Car following in SoCal and all these guys buy CF parts and bolt them on but most don't do anything for proper washing and wax and as a result, most of the cars that came to the classes wither had CF parts that were extremely oxidized or extremely swirled out. It's a cinch to fix, just follow the basics,


Evaluate the condition of the surface
Choose the right product for the job
Use good technique

Getting GREAT results the first time is my number one goal when I work on anything, I'm not a big fan of doing a job twice.

What size and type pads are you using?

Which PC do you have?


:)

[DARK HORSE]

So a couple of run-of-the-mill red 2-doors?

Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover and Meguiar's SwirlX is a very easy to use products that have the ability to remover some fairly decent swirls while finishing out very nice, in fact some people would go straight to wax after wipe-off of either of these two products and they are very easy to use and wipe-off is very easy.
:)

As well as a lot of people would never go straight from WG TSR or Swirl X to wax without some kind of finishing polish in between. After all there must be a reason AG sells WG TSR and WG FG together??? I take it even one step further, and that is after using the WG twins I finish up with 85rd and I only have a lowly mustang, nothing like what you're showing above... Just my opinion...

[Mike Phillips]

As well as a lot of people would never go straight from WG TSR or Swirl X to wax without some kind of finishing polish in between. After all there must be a reason AG sells WG TSR and WG FG together??? I take it even one step further, and that is after using the WG twins I finish up with 85rd and I only have a lowly mustang, nothing like what you're showing above... Just my opinion...

Everyone appreciates your opinion. Note I never said ALL people would go straight to wax and keep in mind, one man's floor is another man's ceiling.

My point was that the Wolfgang TSR and the SwirlX both finish out really nice. Each person can decide just how many steps they want to do to their car. This forum member is new to machine polishing so just about anything he does with the Porter Cable is going to look a zillion times better than what can be achieved by hand.

And the SwirlX is a cleaner/polish and it can be used as your final finishing polish.

But yeah, you make a great point and "online enthusiasts" tend be willing to do a lot more steps to their car's finish than the average person.

:props:

[DARK HORSE]

Everyone appreciates your opinion. Note I never said ALL people would go straight to wax and keep in mind, one man's floor is another man's ceiling.

My point was that the Wolfgang TSR and the SwirlX both finish out really nice. Each person can decide just how many steps they want to do to their car. This forum member is new to machine polishing so just about anything he does with the Porter Cable is going to look a zillion times better than what can be achieved by hand.

And the SwirlX is a cleaner/polish and it can be used as your final finishing polish.

But yeah, you make a great point and "online enthusiasts" tend be willing to do a lot more steps to their car's finish than the average person.

:props:

As do we all appreciate your opinion and expertise!! Be it duly noted that I too never said ALL people would go the extra step either, and I truly agree that one man's floor is another man's ceiling. I also understand that Swirl X is a cleaner/polish that can be used as a final finishing polish. I just stated that it was my opinion there are better ways to finish. I thought with cars like that and this statement made by the OP ("Time is not a problem for me-I just want the best results for the entire car each time I work on them") that he should be aware that the height of the ceiling can be raised.
(P.S. I don't think the average person has an '01 Ferrari 550, a '08 Ferrari 430 Scuderia, and an '08 Viper ACR) at least not where I live...
:cheers: