SwirlX. Abrasive or not? 2 different descriptions

[trencher7]

I'm confused about SwirlX after reading 2 different descriptions.

Mike showed how abrasive it was compared to other Meg products here.

Aggressiveness Order for New Consumer Products - This will surprise you! - Car Care Forums: Meguiar's Online (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28407)
(http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28407&page=2)

Claiming it's more abrasive than Meg's 83 and 205.

Here is the AG description for SwirlX-

"Meguiars Swirl X Swirl Remover is a non-abrasive paint cleaner and polish ..."

So which is it? Abrasive or just a filler?

[mcpp66]

It's not a filler as I believe it does remove paint. I think that's their wording to indicated that it doesn't instill any of it's own scratches. But for it to remove the scratch it has to remove paint so there must be a certain level of abrasiveness. The wording is a little too "cute" for my liking, but it is what it is man.

[akimel]

Mike Pennington of Meguiar's explains: "We use the term non-abrasive to mean it will not scour or harm the finish like a traditional 'compound.'"

[C30-Mike]

If I undersatand correctly, SwirlX is more of a chemical abrasive than physical abrasive. It is not a filler.
This reminds me of Meguiars Medalian Paint Cleaner back in the 90's.

[mcpp66]

If I undersatand correctly, SwirlX is more of a chemical abrasive than physical abrasive. It is not a filler.
This reminds me of Meguiars Medalian Paint Cleaner back in the 90's.

I could be wrong, but I don't think it's a chemical abrasive.

[akimel]

SwirlX is one of Meguiar's SMAT (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=376453&postcount=7) (Super Micro Abrasive Technology) products, along with M205, ScratchX 2.0, Ultimate Compound, M86, M105, and D151. Each uses uniform non-diminishing abrasive particles.

[WRAPT C5Z06]

SwirlX is one of Meguiar's SMAT (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=376453&postcount=7) (Super Micro Abrasive Technology) products, along with M205, ScratchX 2.0, Ultimate Compound, M86, M105, and D151. Each uses uniform non-diminishing abrasive particles.
I think SMAT is great technology. It really takes the "guesswork" out of polishing.

[trencher7]

Thanks for the replies. Makes sense now. I think the "non abrasive" definition isn't accurate.

The reason I ask is the only abrasives I have right now are Ultimate Compound and Speed Glaze. I was wondering if I am missing a step and should either get finishing polish or if I can finish with the Speed Glaze and should instead get a step in between like SwirlX.

[Mike Phillips]

Thanks for the replies. Makes sense now. I think the "non abrasive" definition isn't accurate.


It is confusing but so are MANY of the words used in this industry by all the manufactures.

Speaking as someone that one of my titles at Meguiar's was "Corporate Writer", (2002 to 2003), writing is done and words are chosen for the masses that are not detailing savvy or discussion forum savvy. The masses NEVER get as deep as online enthusiasts do. So you try to covey thoughts that tell the potential customer safe, fast and easy for a deep, wet shine.

:)





The reason I ask is the only abrasives I have right now are Ultimate Compound and Speed Glaze. I was wondering if I am missing a step and should either get finishing polish or if I can finish with the Speed Glaze and should instead get a step in between like SwirlX.


You should be able to finish out with SwirlX.

Have you tried?

:)

[sparkism13]

I was confused at first too because there is no standard jargon as far as MFGs are concerned. They throw around terms like polish, glaze, non-abrasive, paint cleansing, etc. It's all quite confusing. It gets more confusing when you start mixing products from different manufacturers. I think Mothers probably had the most consumer friendly approach in their easy to decipher 1-2-3 system. Cleaner to remove moderate swirls, Polish/Glaze as a fine polish, and then Carnuba Wax as a last step protectant.

These forum boards are a tremendous resource in figuring this stuff out as well.

[RaskyR1]

IMO, if it's removing paint, it's abrasive. Even the ones that are said to be "chemical cleaners" are most likely still abrasive. I think they just use wording such as "chemical cleaners" or "non-abrasive" to make you feel safe about using them as they are in fact very mild compared to more aggressive polishes and compounds.


Just my $.02....Mike please correct me if I'm wrong on this one.

[trencher7]

It is confusing but so are MANY of the words used in this industry by all the manufactures.

Speaking as someone that one of my titles at Meguiar's was "Corporate Writer", (2002 to 2003), writing is done and words are chosen for the masses that are not detailing savvy or discussion forum savvy. The masses NEVER get as deep as online enthusiasts do. So you try to covey thoughts that tell the potential customer safe, fast and easy for a deep, wet shine.

:)





You should be able to finish out with SwirlX.

Have you tried?

:)

I will give it a try then. I didn't realize I could finish with SwirlX. I thought the Speed Glaze was kind of a good AIO from some reviews I read. Now I don't know where it would fit in. I feel like the Ultimate Compound and the Speed Glaze were a similar combo like the 105 / 205 just a tad closer together on the abrasive chart. Right now, however my main issues are getting the etchings off my hood. My silver metallic paint is pretty forgiving on swirls.

[Mike Phillips]

IMO, if it's removing paint, it's abrasive. Even the ones that are said to be "chemical cleaners" are most likely still abrasive. I think they just use wording such as "chemical cleaners" or "non-abrasive" to make you feel safe about using them as they are in fact very mild compared to more aggressive polishes and compounds.


Just my $.02....Mike please correct me if I'm wrong on this one.

I think the answers to your observations would best be answered by the chemists in charge of any product that were discussing, (whatever it might be), and the problem with that is you can't find chemists that work for car polish companies that are able to disclose proprietary information. You might be able to find a chemist that can talk in general about formulations but as to the specifics of any specific product it would really be just speculation based off an MSD sheet in all likelihood.

This is where my Sig Line usually comes into play... :D





I will give it a try then. I didn't realize I could finish with SwirlX.


Sure you can! The key to finishing out with SwirlX and any cleaner/polish or Swirl Mark Remover is to lighten up your pressure for you last passes or re-polish using the same chemical but switch to a less aggressive pad and less your pressure for your last passes.


Polishing paint is an art form that requires not only the right products, pads and technique but the human elements of care and passion. -Mike Phillips





I thought the Speed Glaze was kind of a good AIO from some reviews I read.


M80 is water soluble, so it's not really an AIO

AIO = Cleaner/Wax
Cleaner/Wax = AIO

AIO stands for All in One. All in One means a product that cleans, polishes and protects in one step from one product

Cleaner/Wax is an all in one product. A cleaner/wax will clean, polish and protect.

The terms AIO and Cleaner/Wax are interchangeable and the term Cleaner/Wax has been around a lot longer than the term AIO.

M80 is not a Cleaner/Wax and it's not an AIO because it doesn't provide any substantial protection like you would expect from a wax or paint sealant. It does contain a small amount of a synthetic protection polymer that's Body Shop Safe but not enough to be used like a true Cleaner/Wax. M80 is a Cleaner/Polish which you could also think of as a SMR or Swirl Mark Remover.

M80 first came out in the first version of our Professional Detailer's Line of products and was formulated for both single stage paints and basecoat/clearcoat paints.

I was told it was targeted for auto auctions where there was a need for a product that would work on anything, could be applied using a rotary buffer to quickly restore the shine to a abused or neglected surface with easy, fast wipe-off.

Keep in mind that the goal for cars buffed out for wholesale auto auctions is never to create a swirl-free finish but to make the paint shiny and glossy fast. There's no profit in buffing out auction cars, it's all done to make the car presentable and sell.

Enthusiasts and Pro Detailers on the other hand learn to exploit M80 for all it's benefits and features.

I like to use M80 when restoring antique single stage paints because it uses diminishing abrasives to clean with so it has the ability to chew off dead paint and because its very rich in the same polishing oils used in M07 Show Car Glaze which is probably the oldest pure polish still in existence that was made at the time single stage paints were introduced.





Now I don't know where it would fit in.


If you're using SwirlX you don't need M80, they are both cleaner/polishes. SwirlX uses DMAT and M80 uses DAT

SMAT - Super Micro Abrasive Technology
DAT - Diminishing Abrasive Technology




I feel like the Ultimate Compound and the Speed Glaze were a similar combo like the 105 / 205 just a tad closer together on the abrasive chart.


No. Ultimate Compound and SwirlX are a similar combo as compared to the M105/M205 Tag Team




Right now, however my main issues are getting the etchings off my hood. My silver metallic paint is pretty forgiving on swirls.



Etchings can be deep and that means removing a lot of paint to remove the etchings. M105 or Ultimate Compound wit a DA or M105 with a rotary buffer.

:)

[trencher7]

I think the answers to your observations would best be answered by the chemists in charge of any product that were discussing, (whatever it might be), and the problem with that is you can't find chemists that work for car polish companies that are able to disclose proprietary information. You might be able to find a chemist that can talk in general about formulations but as to the specifics of any specific product it would really be just speculation based off an MSD sheet in all likelihood.

This is where my Sig Line usually comes into play... :D





Sure you can! The key to finishing out with SwirlX and any cleaner/polish or Swirl Mark Remover is to lighten up your pressure for you last passes or re-polish using the same chemical but switch to a less aggressive pad and less your pressure for your last passes.


Polishing paint is an art form that requires not only the right products, pads and technique but the human elements of care and passion. -Mike Phillips





M80 is water soluble, so it's not really an AIO

AIO = Cleaner/Wax
Cleaner/Wax = AIO

AIO stands for All in One. All in One means a product that cleans, polishes and protects in one step from one product

Cleaner/Wax is an all in one product. A cleaner/wax will clean, polish and protect.

The terms AIO and Cleaner/Wax are interchangeable and the term Cleaner/Wax has been around a lot longer than the term AIO.

M80 is not a Cleaner/Wax and it's not an AIO because it doesn't provide any substantial protection like you would expect from a wax or paint sealant. It does contain a small amount of a synthetic protection polymer that's Body Shop Safe but not enough to be used like a true Cleaner/Wax. M80 is a Cleaner/Polish which you could also think of as a SMR or Swirl Mark Remover.

M80 first came out in the first version of our Professional Detailer's Line of products and was formulated for both single stage paints and basecoat/clearcoat paints.

I was told it was targeted for auto auctions where there was a need for a product that would work on anything, could be applied using a rotary buffer to quickly restore the shine to a abused or neglected surface with easy, fast wipe-off.

Keep in mind that the goal for cars buffed out for wholesale auto auctions is never to create a swirl-free finish but to make the paint shiny and glossy fast. There's no profit in buffing out auction cars, it's all done to make the car presentable and sell.

Enthusiasts and Pro Detailers on the other hand learn to exploit M80 for all it's benefits and features.

I like to use M80 when restoring antique single stage paints because it uses diminishing abrasives to clean with so it has the ability to chew off dead paint and because its very rich in the same polishing oils used in M07 Show Car Glaze which is probably the oldest pure polish still in existence that was made at the time single stage paints were introduced.





If you're using SwirlX you don't need M80, they are both cleaner/polishes. SwirlX uses DMAT and M80 uses DAT

SMAT - Super Micro Abrasive Technology
DAT - Diminishing Abrasive Technology




No. Ultimate Compound and SwirlX are a similar combo as compared to the M105/M205 Tag Team




Etchings can be deep and that means removing a lot of paint to remove the etchings. M105 or Ultimate Compound wit a DA or M105 with a rotary buffer.

:)

Thanks so much for setting me straight on all of this. Great info!