Suggestion for how to articles and Tips pertaining to machine, pad & polish

[frosty]

Hello,

First this is just an opinion to start a discussion. Hopefully others will add their opinions to and maybe at the end we possibly come up ways to improve certain types of posts.

Myself included we all are experimenting and posting our results with pix, what we used, how we did it etc but one of the most critical aspects some of these test that I feel are omitted, again myself included is the amount of time and effort involved.

A lot of threads ask about recommendations of DA's and it's commonly known that you can probably accomplish a lot with any of them but the thing missing is the amount of time, effort etc.

For example and I'm being severely dramatic here, but there are users on here that I bet could probably do a post about correcting a car with a cotton ball & polish, if they were inclined to do so. However, in reality it wouldn't really be of any benefit for 99.999% of everybody out there.

I'm not an expert but have had a DA and then went to a the 3401 and there's just not a comparison between the two in my based on what's important to me. Those being able to tackle almost anything that doesn't require wet sanding and also being able to adjust polish & pad and not have to use a lot of force and get it done within a section pass or 2 at the most.

I understand these may not as important to others but still it's important info when making a choice on a method, machine, pad/polish combination etc.

It be more fair in my opinion to compare the 3401 to a rotary. But my point is for responses to posts asking for machine recommendations or the how too's seem to be missing, yes I did it with xyz machine but it took me 5 minutes per section and I had to do each section 3 times is a big difference than taking 2 minutes per section, 1 section pass to achieve the same results. Sure the latter is going to cost more but still it's pertinent in factoring in a decision.

Also in post reviewing polish & pad combinations. I've seen some with product x & pad y and I try it and short of running a machine 10 minutes on a section and doing a hand stand on the machine or doing a section 5 to 7 times, I don't see the same results. So again the time, speed and effort are important.

There are a lot of different criteria in making decisions on machines, pads, polishes etc but an important one I feel is the time involved and the effort. By effort I'm mainly talking about how much pressure/force you have to exert to accomplish your results.

Another idea I have, is what about a template for active members that submit how to's or reviews that is posted as a sticky we can all use and try to standardize on with points to try and cover when posting informational posts and reviews that we all agree on are relevant?

In closing I want to be clear, I'm not criticizing anything or anyone because this site has just been tremendous in helping me and I'm sure a lot of others. These are just observations and from my perspective could help improve on all the great info already available here going forward.

[Mike Phillips]

Great suggestions!

Right now behind the scenes there's so much going on but there is a bigger picture and it includes some of the things you've touched upon.


:dblthumb2:

[frosty]

Sweet I'll be anxiously waiting!

[unclestu]

Hello,

First this is just an opinion to start a discussion. Hopefully others will add their opinions to and maybe at the end we possibly come up ways to improve certain types of posts.

Myself included we all are experimenting and posting our results with pix, what we used, how we did it etc but one of the most critical aspects some of these test that I feel are omitted, again myself included is the amount of time and effort involved.

A lot of threads ask about recommendations of DA's and it's commonly known that you can probably accomplish a lot with any of them but the thing missing is the amount of time, effort etc.

For example and I'm being severely dramatic here, but there are users on here that I bet could probably do a post about correcting a car with a cotton ball & polish, if they were inclined to do so. However, in reality it wouldn't really be of any benefit for 99.999% of everybody out there.

I'm not an expert but have had a DA and then went to a the 3401 and there's just not a comparison between the two in my based on what's important to me. Those being able to tackle almost anything that doesn't require wet sanding and also being able to adjust polish & pad and not have to use a lot of force and get it done within a section pass or 2 at the most.

I understand these may not as important to others but still it's important info when making a choice on a method, machine, pad/polish combination etc.

It be more fair in my opinion to compare the 3401 to a rotary. But my point is for responses to posts asking for machine recommendations or the how too's seem to be missing, yes I did it with xyz machine but it took me 5 minutes per section and I had to do each section 3 times is a big difference than taking 2 minutes per section, 1 section pass to achieve the same results. Sure the latter is going to cost more but still it's pertinent in factoring in a decision.

Also in post reviewing polish & pad combinations. I've seen some with product x & pad y and I try it and short of running a machine 10 minutes on a section and doing a hand stand on the machine or doing a section 5 to 7 times, I don't see the same results. So again the time, speed and effort are important.

There are a lot of different criteria in making decisions on machines, pads, polishes etc but an important one I feel is the time involved and the effort. By effort I'm mainly talking about how much pressure/force you have to exert to accomplish your results.

Another idea I have, is what about a template for active members that submit how to's or reviews that is posted as a sticky we can all use and try to standardize on with points to try and cover when posting informational posts and reviews that we all agree on are relevant?

In closing I want to be clear, I'm not criticizing anything or anyone because this site has just been tremendous in helping me and I'm sure a lot of others. These are just observations and from my perspective could help improve on all the great info already available here going forward.


I understand what it is that you are looking for and in a perfect world or perhaps the controlled environment of a testing laboratory those desires can be achieved. As far as it happening on a forum I think the element of subjectivity along with the numerous variables associated with the paint, type and age of vehicle among others will make achieving those desires highly improbable. To begin with my impression of what moderate swirls actually look like might be considered by you as being light swirls. Without the use of some sort of meter how do you maintain a level of consistency when speaking about the amount of pressure to use when buffing out a section? What is moderate pressure to me might be considered heavy pressure to someone else and light pressure to the guy that pumps iron in the gym every other day when he is not detailing. Even if we were in agreement with the level of paint imperfection and we chose to use the same polishes, pads, and machine and were able to apply the same amount of pressure there still will be inconsistency in our results if you are working on a Honda with soft paint and I on a Mercedes with (ceramic) hard paint. There can even be inconsistency within ourselves with the results that we achieve today from what we were able to accomplish three months ago. This can be caused by temperature. The polish that afforded you X amount of working time in July might only allow you Y amount of working time in Decmber.

I am in total agreement with you about you idea for a standardized format of criteria that should be mandatory when posting a review. That is not to say that a person can not add more but there definitely should be required areas that need to be covered in each and every review that is posted. Good Point...

[4U2SHINE]

I understand what it is that you are looking for and in a perfect world or perhaps the controlled environment of a testing laboratory those desires can be achieved. As far as it happening on a forum I think the element of subjectivity along with the numerous variables associated with the paint, type and age of vehicle among others will make achieving those desires highly improbable. To begin with my impression of what moderate swirls actually look like might be considered by you as being light swirls. Without the use of some sort of meter how do you maintain a level of consistency when speaking about the amount of pressure to use when buffing out a section? What is moderate pressure to me might be considered heavy pressure to someone else and light pressure to the guy that pumps iron in the gym every other day when he is not detailing. Even if we were in agreement with the level of paint imperfection and we chose to use the same polishes, pads, and machine and were able to apply the same amount of pressure there still will be inconsistency in our results if you are working on a Honda with soft paint and I on a Mercedes with (ceramic) hard paint. There can even be inconsistency within ourselves with the results that we achieve today from what we were able to accomplish three months ago. This can be caused by temperature. The polish that afforded you X amount of working time in July might only allow you Y amount of working time in Decmber.

I am in total agreement with you about you idea for a standardized format of criteria that should be mandatory when posting a review. That is not to say that a person can not add more but there definitely should be required areas that need to be covered in each and every review that is posted. Good Point...

I am new and have not introduced myself yet but I will.
This all seems so overwhelming to me. In your response to Mr. Frosty you basicaly make me realize that what is good for one is not necessarily going to be good for another. It makes me afraid to trust what I read as being accurate. For that matter how do I know whether the person giving the information didn't start doing this yesterday. In my lurking through the posts I came across someone who was having such trouble in polishing. She was a newbei I think she was trying to use some sort of cheap off brand rotary. Now a week or so later I see her dispensing advise as though she were an expert.
I see that each member is given a grade (junior member, member, senior member). Is this a function of that persons knowledge or is it a function of seniority on the forum? Is there any sort of accreditation given by Autogeek to its members. So a newbie such as myself can determine the level of knowledge the person giving advise actually has?

[OCDetails]

The problem I have is that I'll be asked a question like "how many passes" or "how long per panel" and those are just really hard to answer. I really don't know how long it is taking per panel. It isn't like I get out the stop watch when I start detailing. lol If every thread was a how to thread, then maybe that would be important, but unless you are reviewing the polish that removed the swirls, I don't see people keeping track of the time or counting how many times they went over a spot. Most detailers just get into a zone where they go over it however many times it takes before they get the results they are looking for. Its not exactly like I could say "Use this and this and then go over it this many times" and you would get the same results. Even on the same car it can be different per panel, so it is certainly going to be different on a totally separate car.

I guess my point is that I don't feel that time or passes is really a critical component of the 'how to'. Instead of passes and time I would say "repeat as needed" since every painted surface is going to be different. Thoughts?

[frosty]

I am new and have not introduced myself yet but I will.
This all seems so overwhelming to me. In your response to Mr. Frosty you basicaly make me realize that what is good for one is not necessarily going to be good for another. It makes me afraid to trust what I read as being accurate. For that matter how do I know whether the person giving the information didn't start doing this yesterday. In my lurking through the posts I came across someone who was having such trouble in polishing. She was a newbei I think she was trying to use some sort of cheap rotary off brand rotary. Now a week or so later I see her dispensing advise as though she were an expert.
I see that each member is given a grade (junior member, member, senior member). Is this a function of that persons knowledge or is it a function of seniority on the forum? Is there any sort of accreditation given by Autogeek to its members. So a newbie such as myself can determine the level of knowledge the person giving advise actually has?
4u2shine, the classification is based on post. It's not based on their experience level at detailing.

As you did, look at somebody's other posts and their history. Usually you can filter out who has some sort of clue versus somebody just posting to be heard.

Also, watch the threads of importance to you. If somebody post inaccurrate or questionable info, others will come along and challenge, correct etc. If you still have doubts post and ask questions or for verfication.

Additionally, anything you get off the internet, from friends etc is probably isn't going to be exactly 100% perfect for you. I just use the info I read as a guide and file it away and when I get in a situation, I use what I read to identify what I've read from others. I try different recommendations. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't and I have to keep adjusting to I make it work for me.

Plus you'll know what not to try for example if I posted I can take beach sand and a tooth brush and make my finish like glass, probably something to question and call BS. But somebody posting they tried x polish with a y pad and it doesn't sound like it would take paint off concrete, then test for yourself. Also, if you're go get a panel from a body shop, you can try anything suggestion there is. Even the tooth brush and sand and not have to worry about it. :)

When in doubt just ask.

[OCDetails]

I am new and have not introduced myself yet but I will.
This all seems so overwhelming to me. In your response to Mr. Frosty you basicaly make me realize that what is good for one is not necessarily going to be good for another. It makes me afraid to trust what I read as being accurate. For that matter how do I know whether the person giving the information didn't start doing this yesterday. In my lurking through the posts I came across someone who was having such trouble in polishing. She was a newbei I think she was trying to use some sort of cheap off brand rotary. Now a week or so later I see her dispensing advise as though she were an expert.
I see that each member is given a grade (junior member, member, senior member). Is this a function of that persons knowledge or is it a function of seniority on the forum? Is there any sort of accreditation given by Autogeek to its members. So a newbie such as myself can determine the level of knowledge the person giving advise actually has?

The titles under the name are related to how many posts you have. This may not be someone's first BBQ when it comes to detailing, but every new member has to start somewhere. ;) In fact, most professional detailers will probably have fewer posts than anyone else since they are out detailing instead of sitting behind a computer posting. ;)