Need some help

[Mike Phillips]

Heres's a few threads that are actually here in this forum group called, "Detailer's Library"


What it means to remove swirls, scratches and water spots out of automotive clear coats (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/faq/19986-what-means-remove-swirls-scratches-water-spots-out-automotive-clear-coats.html)

Tips & Techniques for using the Porter Cable 7424XP (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/rough-draft/20021-tips-techniques-using-porter-cable-7424xp.html)

Step-by-Step How-To Article using Pinnacle Products with the new PC 7424XP (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/19994-2008-lexus-250-pinnacle-detail.html)

How to clean your foam pad on the fly (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/20135-how-clean-your-foam-pad-fly.html)

Man versus Machine (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/faq/20257-man-versus-machine.html)

The practical differences between single stage paints and a clear coat paints (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/21924-practical-differences-between-single-stage-paints-clear-coat-paints.html)


The paint on this truck is not a lost cause, it just needs to be methodically polished back to perfection.


:)

[longbal30]

Ok, my da is a ingersoll Rand model 311a and my polisher is a ingersoll Rand model 314, will these suffice. I am currently a member on about 5-6 forums and I can say that this is one of the most helpful. I have a wool bonnet along with a white one, yellow one and black one. The black and white ones are perfect it 3m waffles and the yellow is a tripac.

I can get new pads and product if that is what it takes. I have 3m perfect it 3000, 3m finesse it 2, meguiars 3 machine glaze and mothers carnuba wax.

[Mike Phillips]

Ok, my da is a ingersoll Rand model 311a and my polisher is a ingersoll Rand model 314, will these suffice.


Are you talking about these,

Ingersoll Rand 311a - Air Powered DA Sander
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/740/Ingersoll_Rand311a.jpg

Ingersoll Rand 314 - Air Powered Rotary Buffer
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/740/Ingersoll_Randd314.jpg



I am currently a member on about 5-6 forums and I can say that this is one of the most helpful. I have a wool bonnet along with a white one, yellow one and black one. The black and white ones are perfect it 3M waffles and the yellow is a tripac.

I can get new pads and product if that is what it takes. I have 3m perfect it 3000, 3m finesse it 2, meguiars 3 machine glaze and mothers carnuba wax.


If you have a large enough air compressor to run those tool at maximum capacity for hours then they will work. If you have one of the little 3 horsepower air compressors that rolls around on wheels in your garage then you don't have enough sustainable compressed air to run them for effective swirl removal.

:)

[Mike Phillips]

I have 3m perfect it 3000, 3m finesse it 2,


Which 3M Perfect-It 3000 product do you have?

That is a "family" of products with different levels of aggressiveness amongst the different products.




http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/autogeek_2080_50345546 (http://www.autogeek.net/3m-extra-cut-compound.html)http://ep.yimg.com/ca/Img/trans_1x1.gif3M Perfect-It 3000 Extra Cut Rubbing Compound 32 oz. (http://www.autogeek.net/3m-extra-cut-compound.html)
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/Img/trans_1x1.gif
$44.99http://ep.yimg.com/ca/Img/trans_1x1.gifhttp://ep.yimg.com/ca/Img/trans_1x1.gifhttp://ep.yimg.com/ca/Img/trans_1x1.gifhttp://ep.yimg.com/ca/Img/trans_1x1.gifhttp://ep.yimg.com/ca/Img/trans_1x1.gifhttp://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/autogeek_2082_58624227 (http://www.autogeek.net/3m-perfect-it-rubbing-compound.html)http://ep.yimg.com/ca/Img/trans_1x1.gif3M Perfect-It 3000 Rubbing Compound 32 oz. (http://www.autogeek.net/3m-perfect-it-rubbing-compound.html)
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/Img/trans_1x1.gif
$44.99http://ep.yimg.com/ca/Img/trans_1x1.gifhttp://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/autogeek_2082_54031376 (http://www.autogeek.net/3m-swirl-remover.html)http://ep.yimg.com/ca/Img/trans_1x1.gif3M Perfect-It 3000 Machine Polish Swirl Mark Remover 32 oz. (http://www.autogeek.net/3m-swirl-remover.html)
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/Img/trans_1x1.gif
$39.99http://ep.yimg.com/ca/Img/trans_1x1.gifhttp://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/autogeek_2082_52399838 (http://www.autogeek.net/3m-ultra-fine-polish.html)http://ep.yimg.com/ca/Img/trans_1x1.gif3M Perfect-It 3000 Ultrafine Machine Polish 32 oz. (http://www.autogeek.net/3m-ultra-fine-polish.html)
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/Img/trans_1x1.gif
$49.99




There should be some more words on the label?


:)

[Mike Phillips]

Meguiar's 3 machine glaze and mothers Carnauba wax.


M03 Machine Glaze is non-abrasive so it won't remove any swirls, you can use the Mother's for your wax if you like.


:)

[longbal30]

I paint on the side, I do custom motorcycle stuff. the compressor is plenty big. Its a stand up 2 stage deal. I am pretty good at the painting part, and I can wet sand with the best of them, the buffing out is what has always got me. I can get small stuff to come out pretty well but I also know that I have plenty of clear to work with on my own stuff.

http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p429/longbal/bikepaint1.jpg
http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p429/longbal/bikepaint2.jpg

[Mike Phillips]

Click the link below and see if you can identify the 3M products you have,

3M Automotive Appearance Products leading through innovation for over 100 years! (http://www.autogeek.net/3mautapprod.html)


:)

[longbal30]

The 3m is the 06062 rubbing compound.

[longbal30]

Are the pads good enough.

[turbos17]

What is the status?

[longbal30]

still waiting myself

[Steven C]

Long Ball first things first your are going to need some gloves with that buffer. With size your truck and the massive are consumption that thing going to get very cold. One your problems is your products & Pads aren't really helping you. you could go with wool or yellow with Perfect 3000. From Here you don't really have somthing to dress down further you have the white pad but nothing to polish with. Finese it you can ose your black pad but you can't jump that far down that quik and get real good results. That's why the guys are recommending the twins 105/205 you can use multiple pads to achieve your results Such 105 w/wool then 105 w/yellow then 205 w/white then 205 with black for jeweling the finish. Then go to sealant or Wax. I not a big fan of the air buffer you don't really have enough control of speed as setting wise
And you should really try stay with the same manufactures of pads so they're constant when step down everybodys color/grade are different. In general yellow is much to coarse strips away alot paint quik. Orange is usually the pad of choice for the start of the polishing. I would recomend getting. A buffer kit with pads& compound

http://www.autogeek.net/porter-cable-meguiars-kit.htmlhttp://www.autogeek.net/random-orbital-polisher-kit.html (http://www.autogeek.net/porter-cable-meguiars-kit.htmlhttp://www.autogeek.net/random-orbital-polisher-kit.html)
Meguiars Swirl-Free Kit for Machine Application, Meguiars Swirl Remover Kit, Meguiars Machine Polishing Kit (http://www.autogeek.net/meguiars-swirl-remover-kit.html)

Both machines have plenty power for correction and you have theoption changing pads to go w/ smaller pads like 3or4 inch. And when your polishing Bikes the smaller pads are great. They've much more control and more pad contact for smaller areas. Although you have bodyshop exp. detailing is a whole differenent animal your exp with will help alot though. Its like a Framing carpenter to Finish carpenter the can both do the job but are very different animals but you at the right sight to learn .

LOL Steven:buffing:

[SRHTX]

Hey Steven,

I'm sure he has some changes coming. :idea:

[Mike Phillips]

What is the status?


still waiting myself

Sorry for the late reply but had to move on to another off-line project, didn't get finished till late into the evening.

Hang on...

:)

[Mike Phillips]

Follow me now as I'm going to reverse the order in which you posted the below comments... not the portions a bolded




I clayed it pretty well , took me 2 hours. I washed, clayed, used 3m perfect it 3000 applied with a random orbital buffer black pad, then moved to another black pad with 3m polish, then hand waxed.




but as soon as it rains or something and the truck needs to get washed again, it looks so so unless you wax it.

I washed it over the weekend and dried it with a shamy, went out and parked it with the sun coming down on the driver side. I looked it over and was horrified.

There are so many little fine scratches (cobwebbing), and the black just doesn't look black, it looks almost like a grayish black.




This reads like you parked it in the sun and inspected the finish after previously using a air powered DA Sander to polish the paint using the 3M



I've never used the #06062 Perfect=-It 3000 Rubbing Compound but with a Google search found this,



3M™ Perfect-It™ 3000 Rubbing Compound 06062 (http://www.repaintsupply.com/pd_perfectit_3000_rubbing.cfm)

Effectively removes grade 1200 and finer sand scratches while producing a very fine compound swirl mark finish. Good handling with easy cleanup. Safe for clearcoats.


First this product has been discontinued, that's a sign that it's been replaced with new technology and likely something that works better. From my background at Meguiar's, (now owned by 3M), when it comes to cutting compounds, when they're discontinued and replaced with something else it usually means the new technology will cut faster or the same but at least finish out nicer.

The product reads like it's really abrasive as the description says it will remove #1200 grit sanding marks and will leave behind fine compounding swirl marks, which are circular scratches in the paint.


From experience, if you apply an abrasive product like this to a clear coat finish using a random orbital polisher, like your air powered DA Sander, it will leave what we call tick marks also referred to as micro-marring or hazing.

The polish you chased it with water soluble and while the wax would lock on the polish, washing is still going to result in removing 'something' and thus when you pulled it into the sun and inspected it you saw in your words,





There are so many little fine scratches (cobwebbing), and the black just doesn't look black, it looks almost like a grayish black.




As SteveC pointed out, the soft polishing pads were not firm enough to be effective at removing the cobweb swirls but they would be firm enough to push an abrasive product against the paint and micro-mar it and this is where the grayish appearance comes from, you've dulled down the clear with micro-marring and now your eyes can's see past this to the black basecoat underneath.

This is just a guess based upon what I've read about the compound and your process.

Hang on and I'll add some more...


:)