About paint hardness

[weeble]

I see numerous references to paint hardness, as in "that xxx from manufacturer yyyy has soft paint, so...". A couple questions:

1. What difference does paint hardness make?
2. Knowing something about the hardness of a paint, how does that affect your approach?
3. Seems like hardness varies from manufacturer to manufacturer, and from year to year. Can any generalizations be made? If so, is there a spreadsheet or post somewhere?
4. Getting specific to me, we have an 06 Volvo and an 03 Jetta. Any opinions on how hardness comes into play on these vehicles?

Thanks everyone!

[Got_Leather]

Paint hardness is judged by what products and process you have to use to level the clear. Certain manufactures are known for having a softer clear, certain are known for having a harder clear.

for instance, if I wanted to do a full paint correction on a 2009 Acura, (depending on the condition) I could crazy results with using a MILD polish, followed by a finishing polish, whereas a 2009 Audi my first step may have to be a true compound like Menzerna Powergloss or M105, then I might be able to use something like 106fa, but I also might need a middle step like SIP or 203. This is why its hard for pro's to make a spreadsheet on cars hardness of clear. You could easily say a MAJORITY of a particular company produces soft or hard clear but there are always those few cars that are an exception.

I have seen a 2007 corvette 95% corrected using ONLY 106fa, then I have seen a Jet black BMW which use to be crazy soft, need a full 3 step.

When I approach a correction job, I say to myself, "ok DJ, last time on this BMW I did this process" I will try to duplicate that process and then adjust accordingly.

With your personal cars, 06 Volvo, I normally find them in the medium range. Great paint to work with. For the Jetta, I have seen them soft but I have seen them hard. I would suggest it's a little harder than the Volvo paint.

hope this helps

[the_invisible]

I see numerous references to paint hardness, as in "that xxx from manufacturer yyyy has soft paint, so...". A couple questions:

1. What difference does paint hardness make?
2. Knowing something about the hardness of a paint, how does that affect your approach?
3. Seems like hardness varies from manufacturer to manufacturer, and from year to year. Can any generalizations be made? If so, is there a spreadsheet or post somewhere?
4. Getting specific to me, we have an 06 Volvo and an 03 Jetta. Any opinions on how hardness comes into play on these vehicles?

Thanks everyone!


1. Obviously, on harder paint surfaces, more aggressive products will have to be utilized in order to remove defects effectively. More effort and time will also be needed to correct defects on a car with harder paint. Fortunately, harder paints are also more resistant to scratching. Swirls are often less severe on harder paints. However, more effort may be required to remove these light swirls.

2. Depending on the types of paints I work on, I use the product specifically designed for that paint. For example, on my Porsche 911 (solid black) and BMW 335i (Black Sapphire), I use Menzerna PO203S polishes for defect corrections. This particular Menzerna polish is designed for hard German clear coats containing ceramic bases. Polishes designed for ceramic clear coats may not necessairly be more aggressive; they are simply more effective on ceramic clear coats, without being overly aggressive.

My approach to dealing with hard paint is simple. Use dedicated polishes for ceramic hard clear coats; more aggressive polishes on hard clear coats, and milder polishes on softer coats. The same goes for pads.

3. Yes, generalizations can be made. Generally speaking, German cars all have harder clear coats. BMW, Mercedes, and Porsche all use ceramic clear coat. Nissan and Infiniti also have harder clear coats. The latest generation of Infiniti's self-repairing paint technology is very soft. Toyota, Lexus, Mazda, Honda, Acura all have softer clear coats. For instance Mazda saves $3 million a year on electrical expenses by utiilzing a 3-Layer Wet Paint system. The primer, base, and clear coat are all sprayed on top of one another without baking in between. This makes the paint extremely soft.

Note that I speak from personal experience. In the past 15 years I've owned over 20 cars, ranging from compact cars to premium sports cars. Also, you are not going to find any ONE post containing information about paint hardness. You'd have to do a research on independent, brand-dedicated automotive forums to get an idea of paint hardness of a certain car.

4. Unfortunately I have never worked on a Volvo or a VW. The VW Jetta is an EXTREMELY common car and you'd have no problem asking for advice regarding proper measures to take on that car. You can also check out the "show off" pages on various detailing forums. I often see Jettas being detailed and posted on forums. People often include the steps they took for corrections. The Volvo, who details a volvo anyway? lol...

[tuscarora dave]

I did a full correction on a 04 dark blue Jetta and found that the clear was very soft on the entire car with exception to the hood which was very hard and took an additional cutting step to remove the defects.

My buddy did a correction on a 04 Jetta which was black and found that the entire car had extremely hard clear.

I also did a 07 Volvo XC90 that was a sort of greenish silver color, this car got a one step polish with a pad dependant polish with sealent (Poorboys PWS). I was only going for shine on this car and not correction, but found that roughly 90% correction was achieved using Makita rotary with a light cutting foam pad in a single pass. This would suggest that the clear was pretty soft.

In my oppinion this is why you will hear detailers say to take the mildest approach first on a test panel and check your progress often.

I have found on a lot of cars that the clear on the hood is harder than the rest of the car, so I would suggest that you try this mild approach on the door or other panel besides the hood and get your plan of attack together then repeat the same process as a test on the hood.

The goal here is to remove just enough clear to get the results. Too many production minded (pro) detailers will just jump on a car with a compound and cutting pad and then follow up with a finish polish, removing more clear than necessary to get the job done. They get paid to get the job done quickly and not to really care about the life of the paint.

That is why a lot of us enthusiast minded detailers get to try and repair a lot of this hack work.

Just go slow and easy until you get a feel for the hardness and for what works to achieve the results and when you get it figured out, Have at it. I hope this helped. TD

[weeble]

Thanks everyone. This does connect some dots for me and adds some insight into things I thought I knew.


The Volvo, who details a volvo anyway? lol...

Ain't it the truth? Why these cars get so little lovin' attention is beyond me.